| 7/19/2008 8:16:28 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 55
| I looked up the greek definition and use of the word catholic and was a little shocked. In the time and language at the roots of the catholic church the word catholic meant of variouse tastes or interests, covering a wide range. The Greek word katholikos meant universal, all inclusive.
When I read this about the Catholic I could understand how the early church would include the beliefs of others as anderstanding that there are many paths to understanding God. A Jewish man once asked me what was the deal with the eggs and Jesus on Easter. I gave him an explination of where the tradition of eggs and spring rituals of fertility came from and that people somehow adopted these as part of Easter but it was just my guess. A term we might use today would be broadminded and accepting of other peoples beliefs. That does not sound like anything I have heard from the church or it's people. I found it interesting that a wonderful idea has become lost in the religion. Or have I just seen things from the outside?
[Edited 7/19/2008 8:16:55 PM]
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| 7/19/2008 11:43:13 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
quantum777
Beaverton, OR
age: 41
| The Greek roots of the term "Catholic" mean "according to (kata-) the whole (holos)," or more colloquially, "universal." At the beginning of the second century, we find in the letters of Ignatius the first surviving use of the term "Catholic" in reference to the Church. At that time, or shortly thereafter, it was used to refer to a single, visible communion, separate from others.
The term "Catholic" is in the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds, and many Protestants, claiming the term for themselves, give it a meaning that is unsupported historically, ignoring the term’s use at the time the creeds were written.
Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: "As regards ‘Catholic,’ its original meaning was 'universal' or 'general.' . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1).
Thus people who recite the creeds mentally inserting another meaning for "Catholic" are reinterpreting them according to a modern preference, much as a liberal biblical scholar does with Scripture texts offensive to contemporary sensibilities.
Included in the quotes below are extracts from the first creeds to use the term "Catholic"; so that the term can be seen in its historical context, which is supplied by the other quotations. It is from this broader context that the meaning of the term in the creeds is established, not by one’s own notion of what the term once meant or of what it ought to mean.
Ignatius of Antioch
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).
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| 7/20/2008 8:49:29 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 55
| Maybe I do not communicate my thoughts too well in writing. I was trying to make a point that there seems to have been at some point in the earliest of the catholic church an acceptance of other paths to God. Perhaps in reading the definition I imagined a glimmer of love toward others before the dogma and doctrine took over. It is a sad thing that happens in all religions and so hard to regain the love when being right becomes more important.
edit for lousy spelling
[Edited 7/20/2008 8:50:41 AM]
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| 7/20/2008 9:10:43 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
scorpiomoon
Brattleboro, VT
age: 58
| It wasn't just Easter or Oster that was adopted by the Christians. One of the other Pagan celebrations was Christmas or the Winter Solstice, which has been celebrated in cultures the world over for thousands of years. This start of the solar year is a celebration of Light and the rebirth of the Sun. In old Europe, it was known as Yule, from the Norse, Jul, meaning wheel.
Today, many people in Western-based cultures refer to this holiday as "Christmas." Yet a look into its origins of Christmas reveals its Pagan roots. Emperor Aurelian established December 25 as the birthday of the "Invincible Sun" in the third century as part of the Roman Winter Solstice celebrations. Shortly thereafter, in 273, the Christian church selected this day to represent the birthday of Jesus, and by 336, this Roman solar feast day was Christianized. January 6, celebrated as Epiphany in Christendom and linked with the visit of the Magi, was originally an Egyptian date for the Winter Solstice.
Most of the customs, lore, symbols, and rituals associated with "Christmas" actually are linked to Winter Solstice celebrations of ancient Pagan cultures. While Christian mythology is interwoven with contemporary observances of this holiday time, its Pagan nature is still strong and apparent. The exact birthday of Jesus, regardless of the holy books, is still nothing more than speculation.
In my opinion, what the Colonists did to the Native Americans was similar to what the Catholic Church did to the Pagans, and those accused of heresy.
Quote from Lvgwithherpes:
The Greek word katholikos meant universal, all inclusive.
When I read this about the Catholic I could understand how the early church would include the beliefs of others as anderstanding that there are many paths to understanding God.
My opinion: It is too bad that somehow this lost it's meaning....or seems that way.
[Edited 7/20/2008 9:28:34 AM]
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| 7/20/2008 9:19:19 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
stringsvrs
Syracuse, NY
age: 51 online now!
|  Brother Lvg
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 54
Maybe I do not communicate my thoughts too well in writing. I was trying to make a point that there seems to have been at some point in the earliest of the catholic church an acceptance of other paths to God. Perhaps in reading the definition I imagined a glimmer of love toward others before the dogma and doctrine took over. It is a sad thing that happens in all religions and so hard to regain the love when being right becomes more important.
edit for lousy spelling
My Brother, You are so Right On with your thoughts and belief in these regards!
Jesus' message and Commandments to Us is precisely that : "To accept each and every person for whom and what they are; To Love them Unconditionally. With the same Love We have for the Eternal Creator and this includes with All our mind, heart, soul and strength!"
And yes, the Universal fell away from the Believer's in Christ, but not the Follower's of Jesus
It is easier to live with a sister or brother who has lousy spelling when they have their spirit and mind in tune with the True understanding and message of Loving Other's; than it is with the politically inept who are able to spell perfectly.
JMHO
In Peace and Love
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| 7/20/2008 9:44:32 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
skunkbreath
Saint James, MO
age: 89
| strings, "-politically inept who are able to spell perfectly. -"
wouldn't morally bankrupt be more accurate?..
or to be precise, pious a**holes!...
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| 7/20/2008 5:55:45 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
scorpiomoon
Brattleboro, VT
age: 58
| And, to make it even more complicated listed are some of the known sects of Catholicism
1. Roman Catholic
2. Spanish Catholic
3. Orthodox – severed their ties with Rome in the 11th
Century
4. Byzantine Catholics
5. Polish National Catholics
6. Old Catholics
7. Eastern Orthodox
8. White Robed Benedictine Network of Catholics ,guided by its own Bishop, follows the
Vatican Council II
9. Lutheranism – still considered part of Catholicism
in some articles
10. Universal Catholics
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| 7/20/2008 6:20:52 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
curiousone2
Springfield, IL
age: 42
| I looked up the greek definition and use of the word catholic and was a little shocked. In the time and language at the roots of the catholic church the word catholic meant of variouse tastes or interests, covering a wide range. The Greek word katholikos meant universal, all inclusive.
When I read this about the Catholic I could understand how the early church would include the beliefs of others as anderstanding that there are many paths to understanding God. A Jewish man once asked me what was the deal with the eggs and Jesus on Easter. I gave him an explination of where the tradition of eggs and spring rituals of fertility came from and that people somehow adopted these as part of Easter but it was just my guess. A term we might use today would be broadminded and accepting of other peoples beliefs. That does not sound like anything I have heard from the church or it's people. I found it interesting that a wonderful idea has become lost in the religion. Or have I just seen things from the outside?
IT means Universally accepted
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| 7/20/2008 6:22:25 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
curiousone2
Springfield, IL
age: 42
| strings, "- politically inept who are able to spell perfectly. -"
wouldn't morally bankrupt be more accurate?..
or to be precise, pious a**holes!...
yep pious a**holes pretty much sums up one that thinks they are in the "NORM" of Logic
as if there can be a NORM in logic.
there is either Logic, or unlogical, no in between, sort of like being a little pregnant huh?
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| 7/20/2008 9:03:07 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
dufrene
Bella Vista, AR
age: 35
| Brother Lvg
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 54
Maybe I do not communicate my thoughts too well in writing. I was trying to make a point that there seems to have been at some point in the earliest of the catholic church an acceptance of other paths to God. Perhaps in reading the definition I imagined a glimmer of love toward others before the dogma and doctrine took over. It is a sad thing that happens in all religions and so hard to regain the love when being right becomes more important.
edit for lousy spelling
My Brother, You are so Right On with your thoughts and belief in these regards!
Jesus' message and Commandments to Us is precisely that : "To accept each and every person for whom and what they are; To Love them Unconditionally. With the same Love We have for the Eternal Creator and this includes with All our mind, heart, soul and strength!"
And yes, the Universal fell away from the Believer's in Christ, but not the Follower's of Jesus
It is easier to live with a sister or brother who has lousy spelling when they have their spirit and mind in tune with the True understanding and message of Loving Other's; than it is with the politically inept who are able to spell perfectly.
JMHO
In Peace and Love
I am curious brother.... you quoted something here, but gave to reference. Is this your words, which if so there is no quote needed or are these the words of another and if so please give us the reference
[Edited 7/20/2008 9:03:55 PM]
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| 7/20/2008 11:22:14 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 55
| "And one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question to test Him. 'Teacher, which is the great comandment in the Law?' And He said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the reat and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
(Matthew 22:35-39)
I think that was the verse Strings was speaking of and that quote sounded like it flowed from his heart rather than a memorized verse.
Thanks to each of you for revealing God's presance in your life by the thoughts you think and share. We are our neighbors and so are they. How can we be so unloving to anyone. I guess the reason the definition of Catholic grabbed me so was because it pains me to see how far organized religion has fallen away from the original intentions of it's founders. John Wesley taught miners in a field and founded the Methodist church. i recently attended one and a visiting miniter and author was in the congregation the minister acknowledged him but said he could not come up to speak because he was not wearing a tie.
Today people are relinquishing their stale religious facades and are worshiping in secret and in truth. The unchurched are flocking to movies like the secret and What the bleep and to books like Eckart Toles new Earth. The church is telling us not to let these evils enter our minds when i think what they should be saying is 'Study these things and see what God is saying through them'. Be prepared to answer the questions your friends have with God's love and understanding. Embracing wisdom is how we grow not be shunning everything that is different from us. If you look at the list posted of the catholic sects you see a list of people wanting to be special, to be righter than everyone else. I think we need to skip the religion and go back to the hippie days of love and peace.
By the way the answer Jesus gave to the lawyer in Matthew was not an uncommon thought in the day because I believe the shamal, a prayer said often in the jewish tradition speaks those same words. Who would have guessed from our text of the day.
By the way those people who are fundimentalist and may seem stuck and ridged to some of us are God's children too and bless them for their conviction to what they believe. I know if feels like they shove thier rightouseness down everyones throat but i try to find a place to agree with them and then we can share what we feel as brothers and sisters rather than the right and the wrong.
May love and acceptance be part of your live each day.
[Edited 7/20/2008 11:30:11 PM]
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| 7/20/2008 11:35:57 PM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 55
| Scorpio moon
Thanks for the things you shared. It really is evident that there was a time when Christians were embassaries of God's love for of all His Children where ever they lived and weather they worshiped Him as the Creator of the plants and animals they needed for survival or the spirit that is in each of us.
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| 7/21/2008 1:29:42 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
stringsvrs
Syracuse, NY
age: 51 online now!
| Brother Dufrene
dufrene
Bella Vista, AR
age: 35
Quote from stringsvrs:
Brother Lvg
lvgwithherpes
Genoa, NV
age: 54
Maybe I do not communicate my thoughts too well in writing. I was trying to make a point that there seems to have been at some point in the earliest of the catholic church an acceptance of other paths to God. Perhaps in reading the definition I imagined a glimmer of love toward others before the dogma and doctrine took over. It is a sad thing that happens in all religions and so hard to regain the love when being right becomes more important.
edit for lousy spelling
My Brother, You are so Right On with your thoughts and belief in these regards!
Jesus' message and Commandments to Us is precisely that : "To accept each and every person for whom and what they are; To Love them Unconditionally. With the same Love We have for the Eternal Creator and this includes with All our mind, heart, soul and strength!"
And yes, the Universal fell away from the Believer's in Christ, but not the Follower's of Jesus
It is easier to live with a sister or brother who has lousy spelling when they have their spirit and mind in tune with the True understanding and message of Loving Other's; than it is with the politically inept who are able to spell perfectly.
JMHO
In Peace and Love
I am curious brother.... you quoted something here, but gave to reference. Is this your words, which if so there is no quote needed or are these the words of another and if so please give us the reference
Your sentence is incomplete in its structure my brother. It is not DH policy for me to quote scripture or verse, nor is it policy from Jesus, God, or any other authority.
Now this is the second thread that you made a statement in regards to myself that has no bearing on the Thread's topic, which is DH policy. Perhaps if you have no thing to say in regards to the topic you should be a good little boy and say nothing at all?
In Peace and Love
As I am leaning to believe that Brother Dufrene is somewhat a Catholic as is question is attempting to bait for argument sake of Dogmatic Doctrine which does not exist in my concept of living
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| 7/21/2008 9:41:33 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
scorpiomoon
Brattleboro, VT
age: 58
| Scorpio moon
Thanks for the things you shared. It really is evident that there was a time when Christians were embassaries of God's love for of all His Children where ever they lived and weather they worshiped Him as the Creator of the plants and animals they needed for survival or the spirit that is in each of us.
Thank you for acknowledging what I have observed in my search. I would like to share another story, if I might.... A friend of mine had a relative that passed away. This person that passed was Catholic. When discussing the funeral with the priest, a member of the family asked it there could be time set aside during the funeral for people who knew this person to add to the service by giving testamonials of what kind of person they were, and their accomplishments in their lifetime. The priest told the family memeber that he and he alone would conduct the service, and it wasn't the place, or time for others to speak. They did have the funeral in the Catholic church, and no one other than the priest spoke,and read scripture. Friends and family did participate in hymns, and prayers. There were many unsolved feelings about the priests' denial to address their wants and needs as a family at a time when they wanted to honor their family member. After this funeral they no longer attended this church. Because he was the priest, they didn't feel they had the right to question him. Where is the love and harmony here?
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| 7/21/2008 10:47:56 AM | Why are Catholics called Catholics | |
sarix
Magna, UT
age: 25
| While it is true that the original catholic church was much more accepting. Look at what they did to the things they didn't want to accept. They demonized a lot of pagan believes particularly pagan gods. King Triton’s trident becomes Satan’s trident (note in LDS belive satan has control over the water), they gave Satan horns to connect the "horned god" to Satan. Thus demoralizing pagan god/goddess symbols. Also if you look at lot of early religions they all had a goddess many of which the female goddess was god of all (ie Isis). Which for early Europeans women were viewed as lower then men. So the all god became a Male and the female goddess was almost entirely removed. But interestingly enough the female goddess kind of surfaces her head again with Mary. Because if you notice you pray to Mary so she carries your message to Christ.
But to also help the conversion of pagans into Christianity they adopted little subtleties to make the transition easier. Like Christmas was moved to winter solstice, Easter incorporated the pagan spring festival of fertility. Which eggs were symbols of fertility to the pagans. They also moved the sabeth day from Saturday to Sunday the day of worship for the sun god.
So while originally the catholic church was designed to accept other religions into it, they also did it in ways to control their flock into their way of believing.
[Edited 7/21/2008 10:48:52 AM]
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