| 7/23/2008 8:45:38 PM | Im not anti-american | |  jmk83 Florissant, MO age: 25
| Well id be happy to share why i think what i do with you now that you put it like that instead of making fun of me and yawning at my posts. And its my country too and i love it, dont take my rants as anti-american but anti-current-policy. Lets start of with why i think like i do.
I have spent my whole life sitting back and observing people and the way they think and what motivates them to think the way they do, the socialogy of mankind. It has always been an interest of mine. Now lets start off with people in general since people make up the government, corporate america, and the voters of our great country. People expecially now adays spend their whole life in the persuite of being popular, cool, and trying to fit into a certain pre-approved way of thinking. Most people are completly caught up in the race to be cool, rich, or to be imbraced by their communities. Most of these people will do by blending in and adopting someones elses logic of thinking to be like that person, because that person had an original idea or personality that people like or respect, i guess where i am going with this is the whole copy-cat scenario. People then try and go with the flow, which has always been the rich and there life style.
People seem to forget that these businesses like the rothschild bank that finaces both sides of every war since napolians attemted conqest of europe. The rich and the royal blood lines that have truely owned governments since the beginning of time, since they own the steel, gold, silver, diamonds, and most natural resources tend to turn the tide of world events in their favor, for their benifits. Now the rich acting like they own the poor, ( and by rich i mean people that make billions and trillions each year) monipulate the worlds economy and decision making for their own interest. In our great country its the lobbyist working for corporate america that wright most of the bills passed in congress. Most bills passed dont really have the best intentions of the people in mind, though there are alot that do. These lobyist buy the votes of the congress and senate members to get what they need done. Which is why america is ranked 38th in the world as far as health care.
Because as capitalist we dont do anything unless there is lots of money to be made. Countries the size of missouri have better health care than us. What i am trying to say is that the bankers start wars or instagate them to make money of high interest loans to both sides. So soliers are told they are going to war to stop evil or spread democracy to help human rights of other countries when in fact they are there for a different reason, one of profit and resources. Now take the current war in iraq, we are there for oil, we care nothing of the country, its people, or their terorist, after all we trained then and armed them when they where fighting communist russia. I firmly believe that certain members of our government knew about 911 or even had them do it. There has been other istances where al quida members did jobs in london on the same day and time the english government was testing out the exact same scenarios.
I am not anti-american i just relize that there is too many corrupt people with their own agendas trying to get rich and using war and policy to do it. I dont like seeing people of any country or religion prayed apon because of a private agenda of a few that own the majority of the rest. Alot of countries do the same thing as us, try and get the resources they need to survive. But when they say no those resources are ours we go in and find an excuse to go to war with them. Now i served for a year in the usmc, and would have finished my tour if it wasnt for medical resons. I have visited mexico and canada, and while i havent been to as many countries as i would like to i still know enough people from those countries that i get the general idea of what it is like there. I also am not anti-republican for i like and dislike both parties equally. They both do alot of good and they both do their fair share of evil. I just dont think that america or anyone should control the world. I blame the american people for being stupid as much as i blame our government and corporate america for our problems. We seem to be one racist and predjudice society that fears everything not like us. And for a christian country we seem to follow none of the ideas of christianity like tolorence, love, understanding.
[Edited 7/23/2008 9:08:44 PM]
| | 7/23/2008 8:48:54 PM | Im not anti-american | | layla22 Peoria, IL age: 54
| jmk, is there any way you could break up your next thread (or your responses on this one) into paragraphs?
this is an assault on the eyes, to read.
thanks! 
| | 7/23/2008 8:51:20 PM | Im not anti-american | |  virilevirtuoso Glendale, AZ age: 36
| jmk, is there any way you could break up your next thread (or your responses on this one) into paragraphs?
this is an assault on the eyes, to read.
thanks! 
i agree. dude just edit by going in every few lines and hitting the enter button a couple times... thanks
| | 7/23/2008 8:55:31 PM | Im not anti-american | | layla22 Peoria, IL age: 54
| thanks, virile.
and thanks, jmk! 
| | 7/23/2008 9:08:58 PM | Im not anti-american | |  jmk83 Florissant, MO age: 25
| sorry, is that better.
| | 7/23/2008 9:41:52 PM | Im not anti-american | |  elwoodmurphy Lincoln, NE age: 53
| We could start by not electing lawyers into every public office. They are way past racketeering and only getting worse. 
| | 7/23/2008 10:34:01 PM | Im not anti-american | | jrbogie Red Bluff, CA age: 59
| copy/pasted from your other thread.
Quote from jmk83: I have spent my whole life sitting back and observing people and the way they think and what motivates them to think the way they do, the socialogy of mankind. It has always been an interest of mine.
comendable. but many whom you chastise hear as ignorant and closed minded have similar intrests. how do you come to such insulting conclusions about people you don't even know? please don't say they called you names first, i'm doing my best to give you the benefit of the doubt as to maturity.
Now lets start off with people in general........
all of this is extreme overgeneralization at it's worst. "people in general"? who are the "most people" that you refer to as spending there whole lives in the persuit of being popular, cool, etc. i know many intelligent people, young and old and as intelligent as i myself am, i could never come to the conclusions you have by observation. and i'm certain i've observe much more than you. generalizing is appropriate after controlled surveys and populous testing but personal observation is hardly what i was looking for when i asked you to help me understand your thought process. since no two people perceive the same when both observe identical phenomenon, what you've observed all your life explains nothing. that's simply a collection of your perceptions.
your reference to corporations is likewise an unfair generalization. you chastise others for spending too much time with the media but the things you've stated here i've been listining to as rediculous political and media sound bites for decades. if this an indication of "original" thinking on your part i find it quite the coincidence that it resembles precisely the political parisan banter that has tainted our political process since the onset of the industrial age.
In our great country its the lobbyist working for corporate america that wright most of the bills past in congress.
please post the the hr or sr number of any bill in history whose author was was a lobbiest and not a sitting senator or house representative.
Most bills past dont really have the best intentions of the people in mind, though there are alot that do.
our elected representatives have the job of governing our country as a whole. they must not have the best intentions of any one group of people in mind other than their constituents.
These lobyist buy the votes of the congress and senate members to get what they need done. Which is why america is ranked 38th in the world as far as health care.
oh really? by whose measure do we rank 38th? by what criteria? i can show you several studies that rank america as number one in overall quality care, efficiency and in medical discovery. although more than 30 million americans have fallen through the cracks, well over a quarter billion americans get the best health care available on the planet. name one country that provides equivilant health care to that many people. your answer will have to be either india or china as they are the only other countries to even have that many people.
Countries the size of missouri have better health care than us.
name those countries and list the criteria used to determine what "better health care" is. and of course, also list who determined what criteria to use.
What i am trying to say is that the bankers start wars or instagate them to make money of high interest loans to both sides.
not even goin to begin to respond to this so i'll just ask you to provide me information on the particular bankers who made these "high interest loans", some examples of the actual borrowers you speak of and the interest rates they pay. if they are paying a high interest rate in today's relatively low interest economy, they need to hire me as chief financial officer. i can save em a ton of money. high interest rates?
So soliers are told they are going to war to stop evil or spread democracy to help human rights of other countries when in fact they are there for a different reason, one of profit and resources.
have you been a soldier. i have. as i said, nine years. and i was never told anything of the sort. what is your reference for this?
Now take the current was in iraq, we are there for oil, we care nothing of the country, its people, or their terrist, after all we trained then and armed them when they where fighting communist russia. I firmly believe that certain members of our government knew about 911 or even had them do it. There has been other istances where al quida members did jobs in london on the same day and time the english government was testing out the exact same scenarios. I am not anti-american i just relize that there is too many corrupt people with their own agendas trying to get rich and using war and policy to do it. I dont like seeing people of any country or religion prayed apon because of a private agenda of a few that own the majority of the rest. Alot of countries do the samr thing as us, try and get the resources we need. But when they say no those resources are ours we go in and find an excuse to go to war with them. Now i served for a year in the usmc, and would have finished my tour if it wasnt for medical resons. I have visited mexico and canada, and while i havent been to as many countries as you i would like to. I also am not anti-republican for i like and dislike both parties equally. They both do alot of good and they both do their fair share of evil. I just dont think that america or anyone should control the world. I blame the american people for being stupid as much as i blame our government and corporate america for our problems. We seem to be one racist and predjudice society that fears everything not like us.
none of this diatribe even deserves the effort it would take for me to reply. heard it all before from conspiracy theorist much more oringinal than you've been here. i must say i'm quite dissapointed. i had hoped to delve into the mind of someone who i thought might have some new ideas. but everything you've said here i've heard numerous times before from many i find to be far from credible. you greately overgeneralize, provide no evidence for your theories about which you admonish others and show little knowledge of geopolitics and the world's economies. of course my mind is still open if you wish to do a better job and provide specifics, evidence and something less than overgeneralizing reasoning. i hear that from people trying to get elected all the time and it works for them. you know why? because people like you actually buy off on overgeneralizing crap simply because you have no means of questioning it. so fill in some blanks how about it.
i did not and would not criticise your spelling as i find such admonishment rediculous in a public forum. but when you use words as "past" instead of "passed", it can be difficult to understand what you're trying to convey.
| | 7/24/2008 12:01:47 AM | Im not anti-american | |  jmk83 Florissant, MO age: 25
| Ok jrbogie when i was describing people in this country in general as being just concerned with being cool, rich, and going with the flow, maybe that is something that is different from our generations, it definitly is something plauging my generation. And yes for your information i did serve in the U.S.M.C. You want proof of how corporate agenda runs this country, ok. Iran 1951 the u.s cia was responsible for getting premier ali Razmara who was pro western assasinated because he wanted to nationalize the oil fields and refuse british patroleum a monopoly on the fields, want proof go to cia.gov and look through the declassified documents from 1951 to 1954 concerning iran. He was then replaced by mohommad Mossadeq which the cia also helped get rid of because he too wanted to nationalize the oil fields and not let a monopoly take place letting america and london based companies a monopoly over their most valueable resource. Their weak a** reason was that they felt his natralism would lead to communist even though he was anti-communist and was also against the countries own wealthy shaw who would give the western oil companies axcess to line his own corrupt pockets with money. That is only one example, but i doubt i will change your mind no matter how many i list. The fact of the matter is the government and how it is ran has drastically changed in your 59 years of life. And for your info there is a reason that anti-americanism is at its highest ever. They dont hate us for no reason at all. Alot of politicians have gone on record stateing how ruthless the game of politics has become in the last 15 years and how it is destroying our country. You say what bankers funded both sides of wars and again the rothschilds in london and yes they have done it. If you are to blind to see that we as a country have stretched our resources thin trying to be everywhere and control everything. We have troops in around 30 or more countries stationed there year round. And why would they tell the soldiers the truth about why they are there, it would demoralize them and troops then would not fight as hard or at all if they truely new they were there protecting american business and not fighting their countries evil and spreading democracy. I have many friends in iraq that have told me that the troops guarding american business interest get all the equipment and support before anyone out in the streets in danger gets it. Have you even talked to a single solier that has fought over there, that wasnt there just to be able to shoot people and blow shit up. And i comend you for your service in vietnam as it was one of the few wars not fought over resources or american business investments but to quell the rise of communism in the area. The fact of the matter is i could explain why i feel the way i do alot more and offer alot of proof. But how credible are the facts that you get saying we are doing this in the best interest of the people. So yes alot of it is my personal opinion on matters but alot of it has been proven as well. And yes alot of our problems have absolutly nothing to do with the government but greedy a** corporate america. It is no secret in this country that the middle class is gone, the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Im sorry but that was always everyones b*tch i ever heard about comunism.
| | 7/24/2008 4:51:14 AM | Im not anti-american | | jrbogie Red Bluff, CA age: 59
| Ok jrbogie when i was describing people in this country in general as being just concerned with being cool, rich, and going with the flow, maybe that is something that is different from our generations, it definitly is something plauging my generation. And yes for your information i did serve in the U.S.M.C. You want proof of how corporate agenda runs this country, ok. Iran 1951 the u.s cia was responsible for getting premier ali Razmara who was pro western assasinated because he wanted to nationalize the oil fields and refuse british patroleum a monopoly on the fields, want proof go to cia.gov and look through the declassified documents from 1951 to 1954 concerning iran. He was then replaced by mohommad Mossadeq which the cia also helped get rid of because he too wanted to nationalize the oil fields and not let a monopoly take place letting america and london based companies a monopoly over their most valueable resource. Their weak a** reason was that they felt his natralism would lead to communist even though he was anti-communist and was also against the countries own wealthy shaw who would give the western oil companies axcess to line his own corrupt pockets with money. That is only one example, but i doubt i will change your mind no matter how many i list. The fact of the matter is the government and how it is ran has drastically changed in your 59 years of life. And for your info there is a reason that anti-americanism is at its highest ever. They dont hate us for no reason at all. Alot of politicians have gone on record stateing how ruthless the game of politics has become in the last 15 years and how it is destroying our country. You say what bankers funded both sides of wars and again the rothschilds in london and yes they have done it. If you are to blind to see that we as a country have stretched our resources thin trying to be everywhere and control everything. We have troops in around 30 or more countries stationed there year round. And why would they tell the soldiers the truth about why they are there, it would demoralize them and troops then would not fight as hard or at all if they truely new they were there protecting american business and not fighting their countries evil and spreading democracy. I have many friends in iraq that have told me that the troops guarding american business interest get all the equipment and support before anyone out in the streets in danger gets it. Have you even talked to a single solier that has fought over there, that wasnt there just to be able to shoot people and blow shit up. And i comend you for your service in vietnam as it was one of the few wars not fought over resources or american business investments but to quell the rise of communism in the area. The fact of the matter is i could explain why i feel the way i do alot more and offer alot of proof. But how credible are the facts that you get saying we are doing this in the best interest of the people. So yes alot of it is my personal opinion on matters but alot of it has been proven as well. And yes alot of our problems have absolutly nothing to do with the government but greedy a** corporate america. It is no secret in this country that the middle class is gone, the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Im sorry but that was always everyones b*tch i ever heard about comunism.
yep. just as i though. forget that i ever asked k?
| | 7/24/2008 10:22:23 AM | Im not anti-american | |  jmk83 Florissant, MO age: 25
| Well since intelligent conversation only means agreeing with what you see as reality i guess we wont be able to debate then. Your inability to see anything that isnt a personal beleife to how you perseave things as being are wrong or unitelligent to you. So excuse me for being a humanitarian and and truely caring about the little people of the world and how politics and corporate agenda have devastated them not only in american history but it human history as far back as you can go. The so called proof that you want me to give you isnt there, why you ask, because if you were doing something wrong and illegal but had unlimited resources and finances to cover your tracks, not to mention the want to stay out of jail, you too would cover your tracks as good as you could. SO continue living in your world and i will live in mine. And if all you are going to do is cut down my or anyone else opinions that happen to differ from you then why dont you stop responding and answering my posts. As for me i will continue my quest to help the f**ked over folkes of the world from people like you. 
| | 7/24/2008 10:46:36 AM | Im not anti-american | | jrbogie Red Bluff, CA age: 59
| so much for the benefit of the doubt for your maturity. where do you get your moral and ethical values that allow you to call people you don't even know such childish names? from your religion? or do you find the debate tactic of personally tearing down your opposition.
| | 7/24/2008 11:03:57 AM | Im not anti-american | |  curiousone2 Springfield, IL age: 42
| Well since intelligent conversation only means agreeing with what you see as reality i guess we wont be able to debate then. Your inability to see anything that isnt a personal beleife to how you perseave things as being are wrong or unitelligent to you. So excuse me for being a humanitarian and and truely caring about the little people of the world and how politics and corporate agenda have devastated them not only in american history but it human history as far back as you can go. The so called proof that you want me to give you isnt there, why you ask, because if you were doing something wrong and illegal but had unlimited resources and finances to cover your tracks, not to mention the want to stay out of jail, you too would cover your tracks as good as you could. SO continue living in your world and i will live in mine. And if all you are going to do is cut down my or anyone else opinions that happen to differ from you then why dont you stop responding and answering my posts. As for me i will continue my quest to help the f**ked over folkes of the world from people like you. 
I thought you didn't LIKE oBama, he seems to stand for all of the things you do?
and I would also point out, that the most people that you are referring to, is society as we perceive it. the overall drive of the market, pop culture, etc etc.
and, when you are talking about the kernel of intention that is at the core of laws, and such.
it is called the penumbra, and that is also the shaddow on a match ot flame, it is the part of the flame where combustion happens, and the flame is neither on fire and air.
it is literally the kernal of intention at the core of a law or more, or societal norm, whatever term you choose.
I love sociolgy too, and I find it amusing how little thought people put into their statements and actions.
the axiom KNOW THYSELF comes to mind. and the people I am referring to are both in the micro and macro sphere of scoiety, and humanity both.
| | 7/24/2008 11:25:23 AM | Im not anti-american | |  curiousone2 Springfield, IL age: 42
| Hey, remember when the stock market crashed, and some of MOST people, killed themselves?
well it has begun again.
apparently a woman that was completely in charge of the families finances killed herself in the hopes that the family could keep their house.
the husband didn't know there was aproblem. and hours before they came to evict them, Nothing had been packed or boxed up or anything, she shot herself in the head.
she left a suicide not saying please let my family stay in their home.
who is worse here, her, or the bank?
I am having a hard time deciding?
| | 7/24/2008 11:31:05 AM | Im not anti-american | |  jmk83 Florissant, MO age: 25
| I dont remember calling you anytype of childish name. And dont judge my morals since you and jazminx have done nothing but critisize mei have been on the defensive trying to state my beleifs while you insult me. Another case of take my abuse but how dare you defend yourself.
| | 7/24/2008 11:35:52 AM | Im not anti-american | |  curiousone2 Springfield, IL age: 42
| I dont remember calling you anytype of childish name. And dont judge my morals since you and jazminx have done nothing but critisize mei have been on the defensive trying to state my beleifs while you insult me. Another case of take my abuse but how dare you defend yourself.
I wasn't calling you a name?? I don't know what you are talking about, I think we clearly had a misunderstanding, because I agreed with you???lol
I was agreeing with you, that MOST people, are materialistic, and shallow.
and it is such an addiction that this woman killed herself rather than lose A house.
and I was sort of trying to say, Isn't it good to be not one of " MOST PEOPLE"?
or an THEM< or OTHER. because if that is what normal means, let me be crazy.   
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