| 9/29/2007 7:50:38 AM | Grace | | 
lovinglife437
Meadville, PA
age: 44
| Grace seems to be a stumbling block for me, so I am asking for input on "how you feel and understand God's Grace".
My faith has had its ups and downs, I think that's normal. As some know I have a history of sexual abuse and intense verbal abuse. In my lowest hour, God brought me this amazing group of about 5 people who surrounded my life & supported me until I crawled out and got divorced.
I have always been a caregiver, but unfortunately even still I take that to an extreme. I solve people's problems by taking care of their "paperwork", giving them money, time, whatever it takes. I always hoped I was setting an example that would nurture their faith. My reasoning was that if God gave me gifts at being good at something, then I should share it. But I had no boundaries - I give and give even though it jeopardizes my own livelihood. My Christian counselor told me one day that I was "playing God" and I needed to get out of God's way and let HIM work in these people's lives. I agree with the latter part, but I was pretty ticked at the "playing God" part. I knew, deep in my soul, this wasn't true - but couldn't explain why.
I switched Christian counselors (I am a stubborn thing). I realized that because of my abusive history, that I was giving to people what I wished somebody would have given me. But I ALSO felt, that God gave me people to support me when I was down, so that I should, in turn, BE that person for people when they are down. But the key to this was, I "couldn't do wrong". By not helping, I was doing wrong. In James it says that those who have, should share with those who don't. Gosh if I DON'T share, I'm doing wrong and God will be disappointed in me. I assigned human emotions to God. My whole life has been a struggle to "do right in all situations" and if I screw up, I crucify myself.
I finally realized, I have always believed that God "loves me" in the same way that my parents loved me. I never really felt my mother loved me much, my father did and he taught me many good lessons but both had a temper. In my house, if you screwed up, you most certainly paid for it. My mother quit talking to me my entire junior year, and sometimes "took things from me" just cuz I wanted them. The love was conditional. Things were fine, as long as I did exactly what they wanted when they wanted and there was real fear if I went against that (and I did that often too  ).
This was two years ago and it seemed to totally unravel me. I stopped feeling God speak to me as much inside, it was as if the entire foundation of my beliefs was changed and I felt very lost. I have no comprehension of what grace really is, therefore no comprehension of how God loves me. People keep explaining it to me but somehow I just don't get it. And I wanna "get it".
| | 9/29/2007 10:10:29 AM | Grace | | 
scottbiz07
Ukiah, CA
age: 55
| It is so difficult to make any sense of some of the answers that might be given to try and solve, or explain, the myriad horrible things that happen in our lives, and in the world around us. Especially when one of those answers, such as God's grace, is itself a difficult concept to fully understand. And this is even more true if one is experiencing a less-than-perfect life existence (as most of us are).
I believe we have four sources through which God delivers answers to us. The first is his written words contained in the Bible. In Psalm 119 we are told that his word is a light to our path, and a lamp to our feet. Then there is that, "God speaking to you inside," that you mention. His speaking to me, when it is strongest, is what I feel to be his Holy Spirit inside of me. These two things are the most potent combination that I have experienced in my spiritual growth. Another very important way that God uses to communicate with us, is through other people. You mention that God has brought you people in your life who have helped you through hard times. And you also mention desiring to be an example in your helping others. And in the Bible, it suggests that this might be even more profound than that. Jesus suggested in a parable in Matthew 25:37-40, that when we assist those who are truly in need, we are assisting no less than Christ himself. And the fourth teacher I have found in life has been my life circumstance. I don't know why things happen to me the way they do. And some live a life of torment, and it never is resolved, and I can't explain this. It is one of life's mysteries. But my grace has been that in looking back on my life's experience, it would seem that I am on the path that He has chosen for me to walk. It has brought me to where I am today. And it seems to have some sort of purpose.
Grace is both, a thing freely given to us, without us having done anything to warrant, or deserve it, and at the same time, it is something that we are to fervently seek, and ask for.
And as for God loving you the same way that your parents love you, the Bible says in Luke 11:13, "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit (or good things) to those who ask Him!" So God is willing to give us so much more than what our earthly parents could ever be capable of giving.
I believe that searching, seeking, desiring to know the answer, is the biggest, and most powerful thing that we can do that is in our control. Matthew 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."
Grace is the process of God showing us his love, and making us holy. It is not something that we can do ourselves. But how, when, and why He does this is a mystery. His Holy Spirit coming into my life and filling me with His light and truth (for me) is what I call Grace. But how can one assist in motivating this to happen.
More question then answer, I know. But this will be a good study for me as well.
| | 9/29/2007 10:29:48 AM | Grace | |
lovinglife437
Meadville, PA
age: 44
| Thank you for this Scott. There are some key things you said that I could "feel" inside, ignited a spark so to speak... I will ponder this....
This thirst in me is strong, as if I could drink it in if only I could find it... I feel raindrops, but I can't find the well even though I know it's right in front of me.
Perhaps it's time I ask for the clarity to see it.
| | 9/29/2007 10:49:31 AM | Grace | | 
nonickname49
Belchertown, MA
age: 58
| luvinlife....It is easy to get lost...when life has beaten you down..
when you feel you must live your life through the eyes of others as to
how they perceive your life should be. Plus if you did not do what others
demanded or expected...people use guilt and ridicule. It is a form of
control. Not much for the self esteem which you probably already know.
The guilt, demands and expectations, couple with lifes traumas, can have
a negative effect on your ability to feel love. Especially love from God,
because you were let down, disappointed, you did not receive what you yourself
were so free and willing to give. I am willing to bet that you are a very
giving person, that you give more of yourself, that you do not give to you.
Helping others is a good thing, but we can not save or help everyone, and it
should be done within reason of your resources, physically, emotionally and
monetarily. You also have the right to give or not to give, to whom, what and
whenever you choose.
Grace is a State of being, some christian denomination assign other meanings to
the word. Some call it a gift, others classify it has something you have to
earn from God. In my opinion, it is a state of being that is received from
God, not earned. Remember God resides in us..we our of his substance..
his love is pure and unconditional.. God ACCEPTS YOU UNCONDITIONALLY JUST FOR
WHO AND HOW YOU ARE TODAY. This may not be thought as so by any church or
religion...it is something I have come to experience. God is all loving,
compassionate and merciful...why would we think that he would be angry at us.
he is not vengeful, hateful, if so, that would make us the same.
You have had multiple trauma, physically and emotionally, in your life, it is
like a dense dark cloud that prevents you from being you. Negativity, toxicity
of lifes events and people ongoing in your life can make you feel like you
must be doing something, wrong, that you are not worthy of Love, human or
Spiritual...You were created out of love, you are love...This basic essence of
who you are..your spirit your God center within is your all assuming grace!!!
Look inward, your gut feelings, your urges your intuition, that is God speaking
[Edited 9/29/2007 10:51:35 AM]
| | 9/29/2007 10:53:32 AM | Grace | | 
klassykitten
Toccoa, GA
age: 50
| loving ever since I have been in the forums I have read and related to so many of your post. I can not believe how parallel we are running in our lives. The one that got to me and I did not respond to was the subject of your mother's illness. I lost my mother the same way and the time frames are just too similar. She found out on my birthday in July of 1991 and she past on January 17, 1992. My life has never been the same. The worst part was she never faced the fact of what was happening to her and never would let us say goodbye. Even 15 yrs later it is a very painful event to think about...
| | 9/29/2007 4:15:44 PM | Grace | |
iron_ranger
Owatonna, MN
age: 40
| God gives us his grace at all times and in all places. it for us to see and feel it. for me Gods grace is recieved in loveing others and doing his will. for most of my adult and young adult life i didnt see god in the world because i hurst so much and my spirituality was dying or even dead. today i feel God inside me and this has given me gift behyond anything i could imagine. i feel loved, hopeful, i have friends, i sleep well and always seem to have others loving me in thier own special ways. i never had or felt any of these things before and i feel they are all from Gods grace. in order to recieve grace..... i have to love others as best i can and use the gifts that were given to me.
| | 9/29/2007 10:29:30 PM | Grace | | 
queenofhearts61
Seymour, IN
age: 62
| That is the grace, the peace beyond understanding, the gift. The gift that we were created with is love. How can you go wrong if you love. If you believe the life of jesus as stated in the bible. What did he ask for? what did he give? What was the only thing he said was needed to be led by god? What was the only commandment that pertained to other than the creator? THAT WE LOVE.
IF WE ARE ACTING IN LOVE WE CANNOT BE WRONG.
No matter what anyone says to us or does to us if we are acting in love we cannot be wrong. Understand that love does not only mean those who love us. Or even those who are easy for us to love.
When I was driving a truck there were always those who were pecking on the door wanting a handout. I used to get so angry that here I was a 40 something then 50 something woman making my way and helping raise my 5 grand daughter [gone a lot so funds was a lot of the help]. And here would be this young healthy man pecking on my door wanting a handout[believe it or not truck drivers are an easy mark], and I would think the next time I will not give a dime.
Of course the next time would come and I would look straight ahead and think 'if a man asks for you outer garment, give to him your inner garment also, if he asks you to go a mile with him go two and was I not hungry and you gave me food, was I not thirsty and you gave me drink?
And though I carried a small amount of money on me $10 or $20, I would find myself picking up my purse and think 'boy you sure do ask a lot of me' and give them what I could, though I knew a lot of the time they were going to by drugs or drink. That was not my business, he asked and I could not refuse.
Talk about sounding like a preacher. I better watch out here.
| | 9/30/2007 2:49:47 AM | Grace | | 
deathwish
Ebensburg, PA
age: 43
| Queen,
Now I know why you are "Queen of Hearts" ... cuz u have the biggest one ... 
We all hate being taken advantage of and are tempted to stop giving/loving when we do get screwed over...I'm seriously in the middle of this right now...I guess this is why forgiveness has to go hand in hand with Grace...we have to give the Grace (free undeserved gift) of forgiveness to others in the same way God gives it to us...God is telling me this stuff right now and I'm thinking NO WAY! I'm not gonna forgive my estranged wife who I think is trying to screw me over for every penny...this sucks!!! 
I guess Jesus showed the ultimate example of Grace, forgiveness and sacrifice as he asked His Father to forgive the soldiers as they nailed Him to the cross...my problems pale in comparison..
sister, You are definitely not alone in your struggle with Grace. The example is there clear as day...but our hearts are prone to wander or be mis-guided...keep seeking!
| | 9/30/2007 5:47:25 AM | Grace | |
nonickname49
Belchertown, MA
age: 58
| Foregiveness is the ultimate form of Love
| | 9/30/2007 6:32:33 AM | Grace | | 
swcw25
Woonsocket, RI
age: 49
| I avoided this thread yesterday because the word Grace is not one that I speak of frequently in regards to my "spirituality" and was a little "fearful" of what "can of worms" I may open if I do explore the word Grace further. LOL But I will share how God has obviously "other plans" for me in that aspect.....
Two weeks ago a dear friend here in DHU(John)started ending his emails to me with Grace.At the time I remember thinking,how odd,but sweet and left it at that. That same evening I met a beautiful Christian woman who I instantly took a liking to and we shared some stories together for about an hour.We both agreed to go to eachothers Churches at Christmastime to see the others Christmas Pageants.When we were in the parking lot about to leave,I turned and said,,oh,btw,Im Mary and she turned and said,hi mary,Im Grace! So maybe you can understand why I was hesitant yesterday about this thread...lol "He" just wont "leave me alone" lately,now,That Is Grace straight from you know WHO!!! yes? lol
Loving,I have also been abused in the same ways you have and have spent my life,giving,yet never being comfortable recieving(let alone Gods love and forgiveness)to the point where I had "nothing" left,and still looked for something to give to someone.
Ironicly like you,i had two woman counselors tell me I was "bad and wrong" for giving to others less fortunate because I wasnt allowing them to get it on their own. I was LIVID,yet today can understand kind of what they were trying to say,but it was very 'damaging' to me at the time and would definately try to explain it in a "nicer"way.
Be Patient and please stop "beating yourself up",you WILL "get it",I promise(it took me 2yrs after being a "devout sort of"Christian to begin to believe how He could love me)!
Theres "nothing wrong w/you",and dont let anyone tell you that its a "fault of your own" if "you dont feel Gods love" in the way "you think you should"! He understands and will "wait" for you to "get it",He Is the "Supreme Waitor" and spends His days "waiting" for "all of us"'!!!!!.......in His name,peace
| | 9/30/2007 7:17:28 AM | Grace | |
swcw25
Woonsocket, RI
age: 49
| Death...like you I am haing a very hard time "forgiving" my ex for something he is doing that is causing me "excrutiating pain",and this is how Im "dealing w/it" with Jesus....
I am "choosing to" hate him(ex) for now,knowing full well that,that is not what Jesus wants me to do.I have tried and tried to do the right thing by both, my ex and Jesus and it is not "healthy" for me so I am "choosing" to "sin"(for now).Hopefully in time I will come to forgive him(ex)(for this)and put it in "the past"where it should have been 2 yrs ago. in his name,peace
| | 9/30/2007 9:12:45 AM | Grace | |
queenofhearts61
Seymour, IN
age: 62
| Seekers do find sometime. SWCW I too have a hate for the lives he interfered with[ my childrens], I too cannot forgive but come to think of it I do not ever remember him even asking to be forgiven by me or my children.
So just take it the way it is for now and let it become what it will in the future. I have made my self pay for not being big enough to forgive. But as I watch the effects of what he did play out in my childrens lives and the lives of their children [effects just seems to go from generation to generation]. It is, right now at least, something I am incapable of doing.
Love to my bros and sises. here have a quick laugh
h.
[Edited 9/30/2007 9:14:00 AM]
| | 9/30/2007 11:15:06 AM | Grace | |
nonickname49
Belchertown, MA
age: 58
| swcw..I hope I can say this and make it come out right..as that is my
intention.
When you are being attacked there is a place allowed for righteous anger,
to defend yourself, or family and friends. Th difference would be if you
acted with Malice...just for the sake of causing someone pain to get even.
In my personal opinion, you have to do what is possible to prevent or stop
an ongoing attack or injustice, and to feel anger is normal, it is only
sinfull, when it is taken to a point of retribution.
| | 9/30/2007 3:40:55 PM | Grace | |
swcw25
Woonsocket, RI
age: 49
| Queen..Thanks for that,it was so funny! Im jumpy like that and scare the crap out of myself sometimes! hahahaha
Nonick...you are a "doll"!!!! Thanks for the kind words! One question though....
Are you telling me that the "murder plot" is out of the question???? Maybe just a "baseball bat" to the head,,,just a "couple of times"???? Slashed tires??? Oh..OK...Ill be good!!!! LOL love+peace,mary
| | 9/30/2007 4:48:36 PM | Grace | |
53lady
Jacksonville, FL
age: 54
| I will start by saying that yes...I am the Christian backslider..do not actively participate in any particular church nor do I read the Bible everyday, but I do appreciate this thread being here...and know that I am welcome to participate at will.
I do have firm beliefs that come directly from Jesus Christ's teachings in the Bible. Whenever I am in doubt about any issue or subject, or the spelling and usage of words...I like to consult the appropriate books to clarify my thoughts and learn more.
So about "Grace"...in my Bible, I found the definition to be...In the NT usage: "the unmerited and abundant gift of God's love and favor to man", particularly made effective in Jesus Christ for the Christian. "Christian" is defined as a follower of Christ. I know I follow alot of his teachings, but not all of them as I should, ergo the reason I know ans call myself a backslider.
So dear people, you are right in that this is a gift of God and not one you can earn...it is given freely to all of us "followers". Thank you dear God! I know I am an unworthy sinner, but know and appreciate the gift! Since our parents are not God, they will never be able to give us total and unconditional love. Of course they will love us forever, but it is not the same. It just can't be. Otherwise the children of today would all be wonderful, God-fearing children, we would never have done the things we've done, our parents would have never done the things they did, and so on. This is because we are human and flawed, only our Lord God is not, and is able to give us this tremendous gift!
Peace to all! Cindy
[Edited 9/30/2007 4:49:25 PM]
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