| 2/25/2009 11:19:25 AM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| When the topic of heaven and earth comes into our minds, the general idea is that heaven consists of the vast kosmos above us or a spiritual kingdom of God, and the earth consists of the ground that we inhabit. However there is a deeper meaning than what is common to man regarding the usage of these terms in the scriptures. An understanding of what 'heaven and earth' actually means biblically, will change the entire understanding that is formed from the beginning of Genesis to the book of Revelation...
In the beginning (Genesis 1) we are given a prophetic layout concerning the creation of the heavens and the earth...Genesis 2 sums up that this layout in Genesis 1 is descibing the 'generations of the heavens and earth.
Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
'Day' is used figuratively in the prophetic '7 days' of creation, and evidence of this figurative usage, is expressed by the figurative usage of 'day' in Genesis 2:4...the entire process that consists of 7 figurative days, is summed up in Genesis 2:4 as the 'day' (singular) of creation. That is to say that the figurative 'week' is considered as being the 'day' of creation. Understanding that 'day' is not used to represent a literal 24 hour day is important...and the correct understaning of 'day' is used to reperesent the fulness and entirety of a period of time. without going into too much detail on this usage of 'day' I will share a coup-le of scriptures that provide support that 'day' is indeed expressed this way concerning biblical prophecy..
2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
and also again here it is expressed in the same manner....
Hebrews 4:7
Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
With this in mind, we can move on to how 'heaven and earth' is used in prophecy.
I have expressed how the figurative 'day' of creation is actually representing 7 generations of heaven and earth that are created by God...We have seen how the 7th day of rest is not at the end of a literal 7 day week, but is a 'day', a certain day...that is classified as an era of time that has been appointed by God...and this figurative 7'th day of rest is actually the 'today' that is now upon us and has been since the writer of Hebrews existed 2000 years ago.
So what are the generations of the heavens and earth described in Genesis 1 and summed up as being a 'day' in Genesis 2:4?
There is much biblical evidence to support the true intended meanings which I will give in the next post...but the long of the short is this
HEAVENS: Spiritual authorities dispensated for an era of time by God....such as the "law of Moses. and the age(time period) in which this law of Moses was the spiritua authority over the earth.
EARTH: The place or nation that is made subjective to the spiritual and heavenly authority for a specific era or age (time period)....such as the nation of Israel who was called by God to be subject to the law of Moses.
with this is mind the bible holds a different meaning for mankind, as when John states in his revelation that a 'new heaven' and a 'new earth' is created...he is not talking about the kosmos and planet...but is referring to a new heavenly and spiritual authority and a new 'nation of people' who are called to be subjective to the new spiritual and heavenly authority
In my next poost I will provide the scriptures that support this intended meaning of 'heaven and earth'
and hopefully it will be clear for some, that the bible is actually a book that contains the mystery of God's purposes and dealings with His creation(mankind)...The purpose being God's dealings with man and the nystery being how He brought about the generations of his spiritual authorities to complete His mystery of making man into His image.
| | 2/25/2009 11:49:58 AM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
mindya
Vancouver, BC
age: 56
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| | 2/25/2009 12:10:38 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| Here is some scriptural supporting how 'heavens and earth' is used to represent the definitions in the OP.
Isaiah 24
1Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
4The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
The prophecy above is a prophecy that Isaiah spoke to the chosen people of God(nation of Israel) the intended 'earth' is not the entire population of the planet, but is given speciifcally to the nation of Israel and is a warning of the coming attack of the Asyrians against their nation. It would not make sense to consider this 'earth' as being the entire global population because if it did there could not be 'few men left'...if 'earth' meant the planet in this prophecy then where would those 'few men left' be dwelling????..... in space...
The 'earth' is referring here to the nation of Israel,..... those who were specifically placed under the heavenly authority of the law of Moses...and also the only nation who could possible break the covenant with God...as no other nation was under a covenant with God and placed under the heavenly and spiritual authority of the law of Moses.
Isaiah 34
1Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
6The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
7And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
8For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
This prophecy is concerning the destruction of Idumea, The 'heavens' here represent the political and spiritual authority that is governong the people of Idumea, and the usage of earth represents the people of Idumea....the prophecy is figurative, there is no bathing of God's sword in the blood in His own heavenly domain, but this prophecy serves as a warning of the coming destruction to the Edomites and how there political and spiritual gorverment would be destroyed( rolled together like a scroll)...and this was indeed fulfilled..The Edomites were destroyed and the authorities that governed them were destroyed, even to this very day there exists no peoples of Edom...The 'earth' that was to hear this prophecy is not the whole global population of mankind...but the 'earth' is the people of Edom who are the subjects of this prophecy.
Jeremiah 22:29 (
O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.
The 'earth' here in this prophecy by Jeremiah serves as a warning to the nation of Israel, and is spoken for the purpose of bringing them to repentance of thier idolatry or face destruction and be taken captive by the Babylonians as a form of punishment from God for their disobedience....verse 25 clarifes that this is the intended meaning...
verse 25...And I will give thee(israelites) into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.
There are numerous prophecies that can be shared to confirm what 'heaven and earth' mean in the scriptural prophecies...these are only a few that are used as biblical support demonstrating that the interpretation of prophetic symbols are not to be changed with each individual prophet in the scriptures..but are to remain consistant and are spoken in the language that the Spirit has moved the prophets to use.
2 Peter 3:13
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Again these New Testament prophecies should not be taken literally, as we subscribe to the meanings and interpretations with our own understandings....but they must remain consistant with the intended meaning that the Holy Spirit has given them throughout the scriptures..
| | 2/25/2009 12:15:47 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| as usual mindya has absolutely nothing of any intelligence to offer, but his own mockery of my posts....grow up already mindya.
| | 2/25/2009 7:07:54 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | sharedmercy
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 54
| Sorry consig, I saw many things in your thread I disagree with, but it is too lengthly to reply.
I will contribute this:
1 day = 1,000 yrs
7 days = 7,000 yrs
We've been in existance over 6,ooo years = Not much time left.
| | 2/25/2009 8:07:39 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| Sorry consig, I saw many things in your thread I disagree with, but it is too lengthly to reply.
I will contribute this:
1 day = 1,000 yrs
7 days = 7,000 yrs
We've been in existance over 6,ooo years = Not much time left.
Possibly you cannot debate them either or you would be debating against the very scripture I have used to support what I am saying...
as far as your mathematical conclusion...if you discern according to the letter you would only come up with that paticular equation above....but if you look to the intended meaning of the passage that conmtains the said equation...
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The usage of the number '1000' is only used in scripture because of its enormity....had the writers had the usage of 'a million' then that would be what they used to make their point understood. The context of the passage is that tjhough a thousand or a million years should go by, God does not forget what is promised..unlike man who may forget what he has promised as time goes by, the Lord does not forget..whether it should be a thousand years or a million years, this duration of time is like a day...however it is not a literal day because God is not governed by the realm of time..
So to cement a thousand years to equal a literal day is to also cement God within the boundaries of time...and any attempt to do this is pretty ridiculous
It does not say that a thousand years is a day in the Lord's time table..it says that it is merely like a day is to us...the language is figurative not literal, and no time frame can be applied to govern an eternal God who has no boudaries or restrictions of time itself.
| | 2/25/2009 10:09:57 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
bigd9832
Bridgeview, IL
age: 56
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| | 2/26/2009 8:15:24 AM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| I see you have nothing intelligent to add either BigD, typical reaction from those who cannot agree but have no ability to debate what is being said...
And probably why you are still waiting for Christ to return...good thing you weren't born a first century Jew, because this kinda ignorance wouldn't have been helpful for your cause...
This is what happenned to them....
Luke 19:44
They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."
| | 2/26/2009 8:58:41 AM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| 2 Peter 3
That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
a study of the new testament will clearly show what the 'elements' that are to be burned up(figuratively) actually represent.
Paul describes in detail what the 'elements of the world' are in Galations
Galatians 4:3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Of course Paul is not talking about the physical dirt and ground in this case...he is speaking of the law of Moses as what the 'elements of the world ' that they were in bondage under..
Galatians 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
The law of Moses is called the weak and beggarly 'elements' because it has no ability to fully accomplish the purposes that God has with humankind, and is only a tutor to lead us to Christ, and once Christ becomes the fulillment for us, then the law is done away with completely, it is burnt up and disappears just as Peter is speaking about..
The old heaven "Law of Moses' is burned up and the old earth 'Nations of Israel' have been destroyed...these prophecies have been fulfilled for 2000 years..The new earth 'people of God who have been made righteous" and the new heaven 'gospel of faith' have become the reality...
No where does the bible say that the kosmos, as in referring the physical planet and stars in the sky, will be destroyed. In fact, the opposit is implied...
Psalm 78:69
He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Ecclesiastes 1:4
Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
But of course there is a lot of money to be made in writing doomsday books saying otherwise, however the motivating antichrist spirit has a bigger picture in mind and that purpose is, to promote the spirit of fear upon those who have been called.
[Edited 2/26/2009 8:59:41 AM PST]
| | 2/26/2009 12:52:19 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | akforr3st7
Akron, OH
age: 20
| Perhaps Heaven and Earth exist in the same time and space just in different dimensions, and we cannot detect this dimension due to our physical form and senses.
Just a thought.
| | 2/26/2009 4:08:36 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| Perhaps Heaven and Earth exist in the same time and space just in different dimensions, and we cannot detect this dimension due to our physical form and senses.
Just a thought. Along your line of thought I can agree, and to be more specific as to what I am agreeing with, i would classify what you are implying as the spiritual realm and the physical realm, and yes agree that both realms are something that we have been made to partake in as we walk through this present life.
However what I am trying to establish is defining the correct intended meanings of heaven and earth, when used as expressions and terminologies in biblical prophecy...And again I would say that I am defining the prophetic usage of these terms, and not as how heaven and earth have been when scriptures are not spoken prophetically. Remember that there are different purposes of scripture that we have been given...and it is the 'prophetic scriptures' that I am trying to investigate and define the intended meanings of the certain expressions used.
So when looking at the meanigs of 'heaven and earth' as a prophetic expression, then it should be the past prophecies that we use to establish what the Spirit is teaching us.
The Spirit has not detoured from the intended meanings, and has remained consistant throughout the scriptures when using these figurative expressions that are given...and Peter reminds us of the need to discern the language that the Spirit has used in biblical prophecy when we are seeking the true meanings and intents...
So to investigate some other prophecies where these expressions...'Heaven and earth' are used in the past, and what they meant previously, we can determine what the New Testament prophecies that use these same expressions is truly intending...
Jeremiah 51:25
"I am against you, O destroying mountain, you who destroy the whole earth," declares the LORD. "I will stretch out my hand against you, roll you off the cliffs, and make you a burned-out mountain.
This prophecy by Jeremiah has a couple of figurative expressions applied...'mountain' being one of them, which I won't go into at this time, but it should be understood that this is not a literal physical mountain but is used as a symbol to describe something else.....
The context of this prophecy serves as a warning given by Jeremiah to the nation of Babylon. And that warning is that Babylon would be destroyed through the armies of the Medes, who God would cause to come against them...
11 "Sharpen the arrows,
take up the shields!
The LORD has stirred up the kings of the Medes,
because his purpose is to destroy Babylon.
The symbolic 'whole earth' that Babylon was destroying, was the nation of Judah...and in this prophecy the symbolic 'whole earth' that was destroyed by Babylon is only meant to be Judah and not the entire population of the planet...The Babylonians did not destroy the entire planet and population of the globe and that is not what is intended by this symbolic usage of 'whole earth' in this prophecy...
Micah 1
1 The word of the LORD that came to Micah of Moresheth during the reigns of Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah—the vision he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.
2 Hear, O peoples, all of you,
listen, O earth and all who are in it,
that the Sovereign LORD may witness against you,
the Lord from his holy temple.
3 Look! The LORD is coming from his dwelling place;
he comes down and treads the high places of the earth.
Again in this prophecy the use of 'earth' is symbolic and only represents Samaria and Judah .....verse 5 and 6 describes the 'high places' and makes it clear that the 'earth' implied is only in fact Samariah and Judah and not the rest of the planet earth..
5 All this is because of Jacob's transgression,
because of the sins of the house of Israel.
What is Jacob's transgression?
Is it not Samaria?
What is Judah's high place?
Is it not Jerusalem?
6 "Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of rubble,
a place for planting vineyards.
I will pour her stones into the valley
and lay bare her foundations.
---------------------------------------------
Zephaniah 1
2 "I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,"
declares the LORD.
3 "I will sweep away both men and animals;
I will sweep away the birds of the air
and the fish of the sea.
The wicked will have only heaps of rubble
when I cut off man from the face of the earth,"
declares the LORD.
Here we have another prophecy that uses this same symbolic meaning concerning the 'earth'..Zephaniah is prophesying against Judah regarding the coming destruction that Jerusalem will experience by the Babylonians, and this was fulfilled in 587 B.C.
God did not destroy the whole earth in this prophecy, and this was not the intended meaning of the usage of 'earth' either...verse 4 defines who the symbolic expression 'earth' is implied as being...
4 "I will stretch out my hand against Judah
and against all who live in Jerusalem.
I will cut off from this place every remnant of Baal,
the names of the pagan and the idolatrous priests-
[Edited 2/26/2009 4:13:54 PM PST]
| | 2/26/2009 4:17:32 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | christman
Frankfort, KY
age: 38
| Sorry consig, I saw many things in your thread I disagree with, but it is too lengthly to reply.
I will contribute this:
1 day = 1,000 yrs
7 days = 7,000 yrs
We've been in existance over 6,ooo years = Not much time left.
[Edited 2/26/2009 4:26:19 PM PST]
| | 2/26/2009 5:29:19 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | dunrich
Brantford, ON
age: 55
| 7 – Represents perfection, and is the sign of God, divine worship, completions, obedience, and rest. The “prince” of Bible numbers, it is used 562 times, including its derivatives (e.g., seventh, sevens). (See Genesis 2:1–4, Psalms 119:164 and Exodus 20:8–11 for just a few of the examples.)
The number seven is also the most common in biblical prophecy, occurring 42 times in Daniel and Revelation alone. In Revelation there are seven Churches, seven spirits, seven golden candlesticks, seven stars, seven lamps, seven seals, seven horns, seven eyes, seven angels, seven trumpets, seven thunders, seven thousand slain in a great earthquake, seven heads, seven crowns, seven last plagues, seven golden vials, seven mountains, and seven kings.
Consig, I have no issue with the 7 days of creation, being 7 different time 'periods, and when reading about the 7th Church can see simiarities to this day and age.
Laodicea (Gr. Laodikia) was an ancient city of western Asia Minor in present-day western Turkey. Built by the Seleucids (Antiochus II) in (261-246 B.C.), it was a prosperous Roman market town (strong banking and clothing industries) on the trade route from the East and an early center of Christianity.
Apostasy abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause [Middle English apostasie, from Old French, from Late Latin apostasia, defection, from Late Greek, from Greek apostasis, revolt, from aphistanai, to revolt : apo- + histanai, to stand, place. Quoted from The 7 Churches
Rev. 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev. 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Notice that this Church resembles common attitudes today . No commitment, wishy washy, very popular concepts today. Probably this is a unique time in History, when loyalty is considered a 'weakness", and the worship and love of self, is looked up to more than the principals of sacrifice.
Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[Comment: The medical industry of Laodicea was noted for an eye medication produced there. Christ told them to purchase eyesalve that will make them see what is truly important, and invest in gold tried in the fire, with his raiment that was pure. Only repentance could restore this church. Quote From the 7th Church
Doesnt this sound familiar? We live in a day and age when people see what they want to see, they justify adultery and greed , abandoning mates and children is socially acceptable and is even glorified by Hollywood.
On these points Conclig, I can agree. Where I have difficulty is what I think your belief is , that this, is all there is, we are already there.
Good point about Heaven being anothet , time all together. I think that this refers to when this world is like the garden again, where man and God again walk to gether.
This stage, is sure not reached yet. We can choose to be reconciled with God right now,but when it is written that all of man kind and the earth is reconciled to God , that is yet to come.
I do believe that it will happen, when it does that will "heaven".
| | 2/26/2009 5:47:42 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| When I hear the term "heaven and earth" all I can think of is Taoism, so forgive me... but there is more than one religious text in the world..
From the Tao Te Ching:5
Heaven and earth do not act from (the impulse of) any wish to be
benevolent; they deal with all things as the dogs of grass are dealt
with. The sages do not act from (any wish to be) benevolent; they
deal with the people as the dogs of grass are dealt with.
May not the space between heaven and earth be compared to a
bellows?
'Tis emptied, yet it loses not its power;
'Tis moved again, and sends forth air the more.
Much speech to swift exhaustion lead we see;
Your inner being guard, and keep it free
6
The valley spirit dies not, aye the same;
The female mystery thus do we name.
Its gate, from which at first they issued forth,
Is called the root from which grew heaven and earth.
Long and unbroken does its power remain,
Used gently, and without the touch of pain.
7
Heaven is long-enduring and earth continues long. The reason
why heaven and earth are able to endure and continue thus long is
because they do not live of, or for, themselves. This is how they are
able to continue and endure.
Therefore the sage puts his own person last, and yet it is found in
the foremost place; he treats his person as if it were foreign to him,
and yet that person is preserved. Is it not because he has no
personal and private ends, that therefore such ends are realised? http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm
That may sound like gibberish to some... but to me the story is revealed between the words...
As above, so below.
[Edited 2/26/2009 6:08:08 PM PST]
| | 2/26/2009 5:59:05 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | dunrich
Brantford, ON
age: 55
| Shakti, I would not call it gibberish, even though I will have to think about this a lot to understand it. The "gibberish is in my brain ,lol, not your words.
I do like this though.
Therefore the sage puts his own person last, and yet it is found in
the foremost place; he treats his person as if it were foreign to him,
and yet that person is preserved. Is it not because he has no
personal and private ends, that therefore such ends are realised?
This I do understand and got a chill while reading it.Beautiful.
| | 2/27/2009 8:11:54 AM | Defining Heaven and Earth | |
consigliere31
Victoria, BC
age: 48
| Quote From the 7th Church
Doesnt this sound familiar? We live in a day and age when people see what they want to see, they justify adultery and greed , abandoning mates and children is socially acceptable and is even glorified by Hollywood.
On these points Conclig, I can agree. Where I have difficulty is what I think your belief is , that this, is all there is, we are already there.
Good point about Heaven being anothet , time all together. I think that this refers to when this world is like the garden again, where man and God again walk to gether.
This stage, is sure not reached yet. We can choose to be reconciled with God right now,but when it is written that all of man kind and the earth is reconciled to God , that is yet to come.
I do believe that it will happen, when it does that will "heaven".
Dunrich what I am trying to establish is not whether there is a heaven as in a spiritual kingdom of God that exists in a realm that we are not necessarily completely aware of...but how the usage of 'heaven and earth' is defined in the prophecies, and what is meant when John says he saw in his vison a 'new heaven and new earth'
You might be able to relate to this..
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Now if heaven and earth has not passed away then of course as Jesus has said the law of Moses is still in effect...and if the law of Moses is still in effect then we have not yet entered into the law of faith and grace...Because the two dispensations cannot be in effect at the same time...We cannot sew an old patch on a new garment, is obvious.
So because the new dispensation of grace and faith is the new garment, then the law has passed away, and if the law has passed away, then so has the old heaven and old earth and we are living under the new heaven and the new earth.
has the law passed away?
yes! without me having to quote the book of Romans, galations and half the new testament writings, I believe that we can agree that the law of Moses has been replaced by the new law of faith and grace.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[Edited 2/27/2009 8:12:32 AM PST]
| | 2/27/2009 10:50:51 AM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | christman
Frankfort, KY
age: 38
| Perhaps Heaven and Earth exist in the same time and space just in different dimensions, and we cannot detect this dimension due to our physical form and senses.
Just a thought. I believe this also. There is a spiritual deminsion(eternal)and a physical deminsion(temporal). Good going youngin.
| | 2/27/2009 1:59:34 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | dunrich
Brantford, ON
age: 55
| has the law passed away?
Yes Conslig, on that we do agree.
I have to do some thinking aboput some of the rest, thanks.
| | 2/27/2009 3:08:58 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
acting_out
Eagle, CO
age: 46
| My apologies to the OP... but i traveled back and forth from heaven to earth quicker than it took to read the threads question or statement. You know i'd really like to respond more in some of these discussions, but frankly get turned off by having to read 80 scriptures and then the next 4 hrs trying to decypher where they all mean something to this persons point of view....
I think most people here know the scriptures and to have them back up your view on a topic is quite frankly... boring.
| | 2/27/2009 3:42:36 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
freezinoutside
Scotts, MI
age: 55
| Heaven and Earth -- it's a flipside from The Who. 
| | 3/4/2009 12:14:07 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
henri411
Boca Raton, FL
age: 62
| the time before birth and after death is another realm certainly not ruled by time or space as this universe is.
hells and heavens are right here in us and around us and in others like us we live through them every day
Fear is a mistaken approach. Fear is unhealthy. Fearing God contradicts a loving God.
Love would remove the false realty of fear. And the God higher self within us all would clear this all up when when we are able to hear it/him/her ... those who ready will reach a higher state of conscience or may be they will come back to help us out like Christ did.
| | 3/4/2009 1:42:49 PM | Defining Heaven and Earth | | 
dumbdotcom
Debert, NS
age: 82
| ^ ^ ^ ^ What he said.
How can we humans, with our occasional small glimpses into the nature of the larger reality, assign time to something that is the Eternal Now?
I always took the Genesis story with a grain of salt. How in heavens name would or could we determine what God reckons as a day's work? Madness.
I think that back in the day, the shepherds and goat herders hadn't a clue how to count to a million, and the largest numbers they could come up with were in the thousands, so thousands of years it is.
Why, oh why is this book taken at literal value is beyond me.
In my belief system, All is Connected. So I would interpret the "heavens" as a place where time is non existent and the earth to be a spot where time is put in place for our benefit while incarnated, but when all is said and done, it's just an illusory veil. But I am a simple woman, so what do I know?
What I am certain of is that any dogma or doctrine that promotes fear is not for me, and not my understanding of the Creator.
Cheers, Raven
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