| 3/20/2009 5:20:02 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| | 1. No, it isn't fair because we can't post in their group | | 2. No, all they do is spread dogma and intolerance | | 3. Yes, the good ones shouldn't have to pay for the bad examples | | 4. Yes, many christians don't fit into mainstream christianity | | 5. Neutral, I don't really care either way |
Inclusivity or exclusivity, that is the question... do we allow ALL to share their view? Or do we reject based on a label?
Personally I think the rejection should be based on the level of respect and tolerance shown, not the label, but that's just me...
There is also a thread started by Writermom on this topic in the christian group, quite an interesting read... http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-247689.htm
I'd love to hear your comments : )
| | 3/20/2009 5:38:29 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| I picked "Yes the good ones shouldn't have to pay for the bad examples;" however, I equally could have chosen "Yes, many christians don't fit into mainstream Christianity."
I have struck one person from one of my threads and warned two others. They were specifically at fault. At first I tried to engage them in discussion, but when they only fed back the same mythology and dogma without any substance behind it and without any discussion then I resorted to the request of the others in the thread that Christians not post.
Initially, I set out to show that Christians COULD post, mainly because I have many Christian friends with whom I have great discussions. However, those who chose to post sadly proved me wrong in their case.
Ultimately, there are Christians who don't fit into mainstream Christianity and who would not have a place on the Christian group. There are also somewhat mainstream Christians who are intelligent and will engage in intelligent discussion rather than preaching and repetition of myth. I wish more of those WOULD post in some of our threads, but ultimately this group isn't for mainstream Christians and they should not be posting frequently to this group.
Just my opinions.
Namaste,
Daniel
| | 3/20/2009 5:49:06 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Wolfy: Ultimately, there are Christians who don't fit into mainstream Christianity and who would not have a place on the Christian group.
Makes you wonder why they choose that label then... ?
I myself have certain christian leanings, but I will NEVER refer to myself as a christian, never. I would be aligning myself with a paradigm I simply do not agree with. With that being said, I respect those who DO choose the label and attempt to hold their own and add their own alternative version of truth to that paradigm. It's just not my path.
There are also somewhat mainstream Christians who are intelligent and will engage in intelligent discussion rather than preaching and repetition of myth. I wish more of those WOULD post in some of our threads, but ultimately this group isn't for mainstream Christians and they should not be posting frequently to this group
Some do post here and I am glad for it!
You know what I like about this poll? Even christians can vote.... adds an interesting dynamic..
| | 3/20/2009 6:32:31 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | dunrich
Brantford, ON
age: 55
| Really strange, I always said I would never post in the Christian only group. After reading this thread though, I was going to break that promise and mention what I think about it, on the thread by writing Mom.
So funny, I am not allowed to, I am blocked from doing that. That is fine I do not like to belong to an exclusionary group. In a way, I do not belong there or here. Sometimes very interesting topics pop up here though, and I do intrude.
I read the posts here, but do try to keep out. I am not going to vote, I can understand why people want to talk about their religous beliefs with out the Rightous types, barking at their heels every step of the way, but sure hope this group does not become exclusionary like the other group.
Thanks!
| | 3/20/2009 6:54:40 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
alicekathleen
Sacramento, CA
age: 64
| NO. I enjoy being away from the bible readers!
| | 3/20/2009 7:45:23 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| ^^ Thanks for your honesty : )
Dunrich:That is fine I do not like to belong to an exclusionary group. In a way, I do not belong there or here.
If not there than here methinks : )
Sometimes very interesting topics pop up here though, and I do intrude.
You do not spout exclusivity of truth, intolerance, ignorance or anything of the sort and imo your thoughts are far from an intrusion!
I read the posts here, but do try to keep out.
Please don't : )
I am not going to vote, I can understand why people want to talk about their religous beliefs with out the Rightous types, barking at their heels every step of the way, but sure hope this group does not become exclusionary like the other group.
So do I 
[Edited 3/20/2009 7:45:48 PM PST]
| | 3/20/2009 9:54:54 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
khrystaleroxx
Haltom City, TX
age: 39
| As long as they don't preach and act as if they are "holier than thou"
| | 3/20/2009 10:10:09 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
bichela
Winsted, CT
age: 41
| As long as they dont try to judge us or act condesendingly to us. We should let them post. If one or a few of them get out of line... then punitive measures should be considered, on those who are creating the problems. not carte blanche slamming the door of dialogue. 
| | 3/21/2009 3:28:16 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
d_voted
Winnipeg, MB
age: 56 online now!
| 1. No, it isn't fair because we can't post in their group
0% (0)
2. No, all they do is spread dogma and intolerance
33% (2)
3. Yes, the good ones shouldn't have to pay for the bad examples
66% (4)
4. Yes, many christians don't fit into mainstream christianity
0% (0)
5. Neutral, I don't really care either way
0% (0)
I have no intention of apologizing for the persons who fit the #2 category. They will deprive themselves of good friends from all walks of life by their arrogance and their bad manners will keep others from accepting their "God given gifts" in the service of the community at large. Ha ha Kind of self-defeating behavior through lack of good judgment and good manners. They may or may not figure it out. Alas, poopy heads from all walks of life may remain poopy heads or may sprout roses.
I am however impressed with the #3 as it shows respect and presents an invitation to others who have divergent ideological views or theological perspectives to share in as respectful manner as possible. After all, it isn't going to do anyone much good to invite someone on board a ship by cracking them over the head with a paddle. Ha ha
Come on - you too can be a Catholic - just let me knock your teeth out with my paddle first. Evangelism at its finest. (Used Catholic because that's my home base). Hope no one is offended.
There was a post in the Christian site that was concerned about the similar questions Shakti is raising here. Respectful dialogue and an understanding of another's reasoning is a worthy endeavor. Many misunderstandings about the church's doctrinal stands can be enlightening as can the criticisms of these same doctrinal stands. If one enters into a dialogue with others in a respectful and honest manner, simply explaining WHY the certain beliefs are held then some progress in unity can be achieved.
The US and THEM thing doesn't work. This is true within the family of Christian Churches as well as with other faith communities and people who stand on pure reason or empirical evidence as their fundamental foundations for truth. One of the problems that arises with Christians (or Muslims or Jewish) zealots is that they have made an apriori assumption that their TEXT is God inspired and therefore revelation of TRUTH. A person who has not accepted that initial premise is frustrated when it is used in an argument.
It is reasonable to expect that if there is A truth that it could be found in spite of the quoting of the TEXT. The 'interpretation' of the TEXT also poses a problem. Even if we agreed upon its authenticity the question remains 'what is it really saying'. Ha ha
A question for scholars of hermaneutics and historical analysts not a peasant like me.
Better for me to ask questions and find out exactly what it is that the other is basing their fundamental premises upon and inspect those. They may even be consistent with my own or we can question the validity of one another's initial premises and determine if the conclusions follow from these premises.
All this can and should be done in an air of respect and genuine hopefulness for mutual benefit - without the attending arrogance of teacher/student which presupposes one being in a position of power or knowledge while the other is subservient and ignorant.
I'm sorry if I have gone on - and on - and on. Blah Blah Blah 
Keep groovin'  <<< lemonaide and good cheer
| | 3/21/2009 4:01:26 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
sun_shine51
West Monroe, LA
age: 58
| SHAKTI SAID: Personally I think the rejection should be based on the level of respect and tolerance shown, not the label, but that's just me...
Hello everyone,
I agree with shakti....I had to re-think my answer to "writermoms". I prayed about it and God showed me something similar to what you wrote on this thread. I had to go back and add to writermom's thread this morning after I realized I was being kind of selfish!
| | 3/21/2009 6:30:14 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | spiritwalker69
Boise, ID
age: 69
| The statement many Christians don't fit into mainstream Christianity. Holds some truth. I would not say many but there are a few that do not fit traditional Christianity. I am thinking about the Gnostic's as one while one couldn't certainly classify them as Christian There belief is not traditional Christianity. As is the case with LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints) Certainly there beliefs are different from Evangelicals or even Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, or Episcopal. Traditional Christians reject them the same as thy reject Pagans as being non-Christian, however, LDS classify themselves as Christian. This should also help clarify why some who don't fit the traditional Christian mold continue to call themselves Christian. Considering the number of Christian denominations an sub denominations. I have yet to read a clear definition of Christian. It varies on whom your speaking to. I believe that as Wolf said as long as they show respect why shouldn't they post. Our not being able to post on the Christian site is an administrative decision of DH. There is a Forum called Religion which has both Christian as well as other Religions posts on it. JMDO
| | 3/21/2009 7:01:52 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
alicekathleen
Sacramento, CA
age: 64
| I did rethink my flip remark. I do feel, however, that this is a "safe place" to be away from the holy rollers and those
who would burn us at the stake if they could. I have Christian friends, good ones, in real life, but it is good nevertheless to not have to tread on their toes here.
| | 3/21/2009 11:42:17 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
mw2
Cocoa, FL
age: 49
| Tara, you miss the point entirely. Rare for you. You ask if "Christians" should be allowed to post in here. Sounds like the Christians have a thread closed to outsiders? Darlin........if you read the teachings of Jesus Christ (and you know that I have) his message was tolerance and love for everyone - even the narrow minded and bigoted. Would you tar all Christians with the same brush as others have done Jews, Blacks, and women? Of course you wouldn't. Such a thing would be abhorrent to you. If certain like minded people wish to get together to talk amongst themselves - well that's their right isn't it? If anything they will bear the loss by excluding many interesting thoughts, ideas and opinions. But really, the whole question smacks of the feelings of a sixth grader who's feelings have been hurt because they can't play with a certain group at recess.
I've a novel idea. It is my sincere wish that one day we may evolve to the point where we no longer have to label any and everything according to race, religion, political belief, etc. ? What if there was no black, white, hispanic, asian, etc? What if there was no christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, etc? What if there were only "People"?
Even more? What is the point of hours spent posting useless rhetoric? Everyone here can philosophize till the cows come home and it is utterly meaningless. The man who says much and does little will never change anything. The man who says little and does much can change everything. I.E. - talk is cheap. We should all get out and do something to make the world a better place.
Miss talking to you T and I hope life's treating you well! 
MW
| | 3/22/2009 7:50:39 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| Tara, you miss the point entirely. Rare for you. You ask if "Christians" should be allowed to post in here. Sounds like the Christians have a thread closed to outsiders? Darlin........if you read the teachings of Jesus Christ (and you know that I have) his message was tolerance and love for everyone - even the narrow minded and bigoted. Would you tar all Christians with the same brush as others have done Jews, Blacks, and women? Of course you wouldn't. Such a thing would be abhorrent to you. If certain like minded people wish to get together to talk amongst themselves - well that's their right isn't it? If anything they will bear the loss by excluding many interesting thoughts, ideas and opinions. But really, the whole question smacks of the feelings of a sixth grader who's feelings have been hurt because they can't play with a certain group at recess.
I've a novel idea. It is my sincere wish that one day we may evolve to the point where we no longer have to label any and everything according to race, religion, political belief, etc. ? What if there was no black, white, hispanic, asian, etc? What if there was no christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, etc? What if there were only "People"?
Even more? What is the point of hours spent posting useless rhetoric? Everyone here can philosophize till the cows come home and it is utterly meaningless. The man who says much and does little will never change anything. The man who says little and does much can change everything. I.E. - talk is cheap. We should all get out and do something to make the world a better place.
Miss talking to you T and I hope life's treating you well!
MW
That's a beautiful thought. However, the point of having groups with specific interests is so that people with similar interests can meet and discuss that about which they are commonly interested. It doesn't have to do with segregating ourselves.
My answer still stands though. If this were a "Pagan" forum I'd see not allowing Christians to post, but it's an "other religions" forum which is a much broader spectrum and, invariably, includes some Christians.
Namaste,
Daniel
| | 3/22/2009 1:29:19 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
acting_out
Eagle, CO
age: 46
| ooops, bad post... see next pg.
[Edited 3/22/2009 1:33:36 PM PST]
| | 3/22/2009 1:32:51 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
acting_out
Eagle, CO
age: 46
| I'll tell you shakti, when i first came on here i posted my status as christian....
I'm not a bible thumper that feels he has to post 30 scriptures to back up my thinking,
nor do i think i have to know the bible by heart to make a point on a particular subject.
This is why i removed christian from my profile... i personnaly dislike a lot of what and how i see other christians post.
I don't fit into the norm and enjoy having the freedom to post in other non-religious places. Just from you alone i've learned a lot of things, so why hamper someones growth by exclusion?
| | 3/22/2009 2:03:15 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | raventalon
Belleville, IL
age: 49
| Wow! 
Did the Religion forum go up in flames?
Xtians posting in here?!
Thor's Balls! There is a Hell! 
(sobbing uncontrollably)
(snort, sniff)
| | 3/23/2009 11:30:57 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | spiritwalker69
Boise, ID
age: 69
| I have found that there are just as many close minded people in other denominations then Christian especially Pagan. We, Pagans, have just as many people with bigoted opinions against Christians. As there are bigoted Christians against Pagans.
My mother gave me good advise years ago. She said, " Make sure your own doorstep is clean before you complain about your neighbors".
[Edited 3/23/2009 11:32:15 AM PST]
| | 3/23/2009 6:22:38 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | akforrest7
Akron, OH
age: 20
| What if you beleive and see connections in most religions, including Christianity?
| | 3/23/2009 8:52:27 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| mw2: Tara, you miss the point entirely. Rare for you.
Oh? Enlighten me as to what the point is then? I kinda thought I had my own point, it's sorta why I started this thread... and so far I have been highly impressed with the results!
You ask if "Christians" should be allowed to post in here. Sounds like the Christians have a thread closed to outsiders? Darlin........if you read the teachings of Jesus Christ (and you know that I have) his message was tolerance and love for everyone - even the narrow minded and bigoted.
Then why is the christian group closed to outsiders?
I must admit to seeing a certain irony in that regard...
I've a novel idea. It is my sincere wish that one day we may evolve to the point where we no longer have to label any and everything according to race, religion, political belief, etc. ? What if there was no black, white, hispanic, asian, etc? What if there was no christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, etc? What if there were only "People"?
You are preaching to the choir with this, believe me.
Even more? What is the point of hours spent posting useless rhetoric? Everyone here can philosophize till the cows come home and it is utterly meaningless. The man who says much and does little will never change anything. The man who says little and does much can change everything. I.E. - talk is cheap. We should all get out and do something to make the world a better place.
And yet every action that has EVER done any good has started as an idea in one man's head.. who then took that idea and shared it with others.. the enthusiam spread and they acted on said ideas. It is how all change happens. I understand balance, but I definately don't consider the sharing we do in here as useless, if I did, I wouldn't be here.
Miss talking to you T and I hope life's treating you well!
Thanks, hope all is well with you too
| | 3/23/2009 9:04:15 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Dvoted, I loved your post, thank you for sharing your thoughts here
Same to you sunshine.. you really do light up a room you know : )
acting out:I'll tell you shakti, when i first came on here i posted my status as christian....
I'm not a bible thumper that feels he has to post 30 scriptures to back up my thinking,
nor do i think i have to know the bible by heart to make a point on a particular subject.
This is why i removed christian from my profile... i personnaly dislike a lot of what and how i see other christians post.
I don't fit into the norm and enjoy having the freedom to post in other non-religious places. Just from you alone i've learned a lot of things, so why hamper someones growth by exclusion?
I never knew you changed your label? There are a number of you then... I find that really interesting. I wish that those who are disapointed with what they see as dirtying the name of christ and christianity could somehow shift the paradigm.. and maybe that will happen yet! I have learned from you too and definately enjoy the debates we have had.. not everyone can do so with respect : )
raventalon:Wow!
Did the Religion forum go up in flames?
Xtians posting in here?!
Thor's Balls! There is a Hell!
(sobbing uncontrollably)
(snort, sniff)
There there, it'll be alright, lol...
spiritwalker: I have found that there are just as many close minded people in other denominations then Christian especially Pagan. We, Pagans, have just as many people with bigoted opinions against Christians. As there are bigoted Christians against Pagans.
My mother gave me good advise years ago. She said, " Make sure your own doorstep is clean before you complain about your neighbors".
Totally agree : )
akforr: What if you beleive and see connections in most religions, including Christianity?
That's the same as me.. I call myself spiritually eclectic, nothing else really fits, and I've tried on lots of hats! lol...
I am loving the direction of this thread! Thanks all 
| | 3/23/2009 10:15:01 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
casheyesblond
Belmont, NC
age: 45
| shakti, hand me my crayons---I got something to say 
I happen to believe that there was once this man that walked this earth that could also walk on water.And yeah sure,there are others that think I must be writing with crayons these days to have such a belief.And there are those that share this same belief as myself but at the same time,may possibly refer to me as nothing more than just a tattooed,belly pierced "heathen" while also being quick to say I'm going straight to hell.Now,I don't know this hell that others speak of--never been there....,but when I feel the presence of this spirit that I recognize and refer to as G-d,it does make me believe there is a heaven that awaits me---so when others judge me to hell,I just tell em,"fret not I say,I heard there was at least twelve gates to get into heaven"(smilin')
And here's the thing.The person that started this thread is someone that has always embraced me as a friend and embraced me on my individual merits and virtue and we don't have to hold the same spiritual beliefs to recognize the spirit in one another.
I also have Cherokee blood running through these veins and I believe that my bloodline breathes through these North Carolina Mountains so therefore it is also my belief that spirituality is not something one can take ownership of !
[Edited 3/23/2009 10:23:29 PM PST]
| | 3/24/2009 10:05:46 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
nico420
Brookwood, AL
age: 30
| IMO We allow all to share their view- labels only limit those who embrace them- and most who do wouldn't come here anyway- I agree its an individual basis- christiams who come here with an open mind may raise their awareness- and well....those who come to convert have quite the job ahead of them i think- lol
i feel everyone is welcome here-
just being excluded from their forum indicates the fragility of the dogma they embrace, and we need not fear that here
I welcome criticism to my beliefs- it is merely a catalyst for growth
What if you beleive and see connections in most religions, including Christianity?
then you are one of us who can see the bigger picture of the future of 'religion' and embraces it- the 'world religion' that is coming- and once its here it will bring all of us together and leave out no one who would care to be included, all 'religion' will fall away and we will all simply follow the way
just a thought
| | 3/25/2009 6:46:56 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 56
| Nico, I'm thrilled to see you write explainations, to some of these subjects, with words I couldn't express my self. It is nice to meet people of like mind here thank you for your input.
| | 3/25/2009 10:17:33 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
gapeach7777
Ball Ground, GA
age: 37
| I thought Dustin changed it recently to where non-Christians can post in there. I think we should all be able to post wherever we want. I'm a Christian not a Bible thumper by any means but I do visit this forum daily to read what you all wrote. I find it interesting and not here to judge any of you. Believe in what you will and I will do the same.
| | 3/25/2009 11:21:26 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
nico420
Brookwood, AL
age: 30
| Nico, I'm thrilled to see you write explainations, to some of these subjects, with words I couldn't express my self. It is nice to meet people of like mind here thank you for your input.
thanks for the compliment-
i really enjoy the expression of thought through our system of 26 symbolic characters, but please, i'm already struggling to loose that pesky ego, so don't pat me too hard-lol
[Edited 3/25/2009 11:22:34 AM PST]
| | 3/27/2009 5:24:25 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | julietromeo
Paradise Inn, WA
age: 60
| none of the choices suit me. my answer to the op's question is to ask another question; this is an open forum is it not?
| | 3/27/2009 6:12:55 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| none of the choices suit me. my answer to the op's question is to ask another question; this is an open forum is it not?
That's sort of the issue to which the op refers. This is an open forum and some folks have complained about that because other groups have specific posting restrictions. Some folks feel that because the Christians have their own private group, to which we cannot post, that they should not be allowed to post in here.
While I see their point, I'm the kind of guy who likes a variety of perspectives just so long as everyone is respectful and at least attempts to make intelligent arguments. There are a few "Christians" who posted in here who were nasty and that got some people's hackles up, but there have also been a few who were really respectful and intelligent. Mainly that's because people are people and there will be idiots and good folks within almost any group.
[Edited 3/27/2009 6:13:34 AM PST]
| | 3/27/2009 4:37:12 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | julietromeo
Paradise Inn, WA
age: 60
| this forum is titled "other religions". neither speaks to or bars christians.
| | 3/28/2009 1:41:01 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
marlopainter
Milwaukee, WI
age: 30
| thanks for the compliment-
i really enjoy the expression of thought through our system of 26 symbolic characters, but please, i'm already struggling to loose that pesky ego, so don't pat me too hard-lol
LOL, Dr. Wayne Dyer once said:
..to acknowledge you need to defeat your ego
is an egotistical statement in itself.
*Sorry for running off track. 
<3 Nico, I enjoy your posts as well, and the 420.
[Edited 3/28/2009 1:43:08 AM PST]
| | 4/4/2009 12:30:48 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | checkmateu2
Stockton, CA
age: 41
| I Just Believe Everyone's Opinion Has Validity whether They Are Right Or Wrong. So, I'll Sit back And Watch The Fireworks And Return Later.
| | 4/4/2009 5:57:07 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
voevode
Seattle, WA
age: 56
| Why not?
Oh, sure—it might be nice to have a ‘refuge’ to go to, where they can’t post. I mean, they have one—so why not we?
Because we don’t need one. Are we so weak in our beliefs that we have to run and hide in our fortress?
I remember one Christian gal writing to one fellow, whose views were rather different than hers [and most Christians]—“Please—don’t spoil it for us here.”
Makes me think of something from The Book of the Law
57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!
58. But the keen and the proud, the royal and the lofty; ye are brothers!
59. As brothers fight ye!
[Liber AL vel Legis III:57-59
So let them run back to their Christians Only Forums and lick their wounds.
As for us—that which does not kill us will only make us stronger.
As for any of us—Christian, or otherwise—if we can’t stand the heat, we should stay out of the Goddammed Kitchen!
| | 4/5/2009 11:07:07 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
garravesh
Etna, CA
age: 37
| As long as WE (errr ooops) they can discuss relevant issues here without being disrespectful and following all the established rules of DH then yea.
| | 4/6/2009 11:11:18 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | cateyes45
Columbus, OH
age: 45
| I believe the good ones should not have to pay for the actions of the bad.
I can say I am also one who does not fit into mainstream christianity.
I am so unconventional it is not funny. The more history I study, the more text, scriptures, and learn about other religions out there, the more I understand the Creators real purpose for us all.
| | 4/6/2009 6:23:08 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
daddy67
Tunnel Hill, GA
age: 42
| I'm a Christain and not gona preach my view however this post cought my eye so I voted and enjoyed reading your posts enjoy 
| | 4/6/2009 6:38:47 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | akforrest7
Akron, OH
age: 20
| Yes, I am somewhat of a Christian, however I think there is truth to most religions at least major ones. I however read the Bible from a really spiritual persective instead of a literal one. I disagree many mainstream Christian views, and have read into many other religions and find a lot of answers in Eastern religions especially.
| | 4/8/2009 11:51:03 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | cguard04
Cumming, GA
age: 31
| OK, want to start out with the following. The First Amendment in the U.S. Constitution
states the following:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
So based on the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution I am thankful to be born
here in United States of America that was founded and established based on Judeo-Christian principles and is arguably a Christian nation. ( Despite what President Obama says )
With that said, I thank you guys, to allow me to be part of this forum, after all we all
believe in something whether, like myself believe in the principles established in the bible or an atheist whose belief is in the non-belief of a Creator. At least we can
all state with pride we are Americans and this is great country to live or Canadians our
perpetual neighbors to the north, I think we are all blessed and fortunate to live here in North America.
I do not think the Christian Forum to have a prohibition on people that hold other beliefs from writing an entry in their forum. I hold this belief because as a Christian I am prohibited from carrying out multiple activities in America:
For instance:
1.) I have been forced to learn the theory of Evolution as truth to graduate from school,
despite the fact that their is no proof that man evolved from an ape. In fact DNA techology proves that macro-evolution is impossible. One species of animal can not
evolve into another species as the DNA information does not randomly generate attributes that lead to another species, even when one adds millions or billions of years.
2.) I can't say prayers at public school games, though I am taxed to fund the public
school system.
3.) I am taxed to fund planned parenthood's abortion market, eventually Obama's stem cell
experiments, despite the fact I oppose both.
So yes I feel your frustration as it relates to be denied access due to one's beliefs.
But I have to admit, if your definition of Bible thumper is one, who continues to
point to the bible as an example to lead one's life. Then I have to confess, call
me Mr. Bible Thumper.
Have a good one.
Carlos "Created in God's Image" Espinoza
| | 4/9/2009 6:35:06 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
alicekathleen
Sacramento, CA
age: 64
| Bud, you have no idea what it was liking growing up in the 1950's as a non Christian. In those days, teachers
in public schools read the bible, and there were prayers before lunch. They added the words "under god" to the
Pledge of Allegience, and I refused to say them. We have had to live in your world, now you must learn to live
in a world of diversity.
| | 4/9/2009 10:56:20 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | cguard04
Cumming, GA
age: 31
| Wow, I must learn! To live in the world of diversity.
And how are you doing today. Are you having a great day so far... I wish a great
and blessed Good Friday & weekend.
You must agree with me that we live in a pretty great country. And yes let's admit this
country was founded on Christian principles. Yet we can have an open debate today, just as an FYI, why are bibles banned from public schools today and\or the teaching of the bible banned? After all is that not a form of reverse discrimination, in which Christians are responsible to pay for a secular education system in the form of taxes. Why isn't there an open debate in which the bible which holds indisputable historical facts is not an available course a student can take in the public school system?
The bible is comprised of over 60 books, 67 books to be exact, should all the books of the bible and historical events of the bible be prohibited from being taught in public school in the name of diversity.
By the way what's the definition of diversity. Hopefully its not defined as tolerate all
beliefs, but ban just one.
With that said, per your reference to history, that the bible was once a required textbook
in public schools. It is apparent that America's founding father's philosophy and goals were to establish a more perfect union based on the principles of the bible.
Here's a quote from founding father Benjamin Rush:
But passing by all other considerations, and contemplating merely the political institutions of the United States, I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them. We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this divine book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and all those sober and frugal virtues which constitute the soul of republicanism.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Bible_in_schools.html
I think this forum is an awesome incubator for lively and friendly debate, to unravel hyperbole & to identify the truth. Look forward to hearing your feedback on this tread.
Have a good one.
Carlos "Created In God's Image" Espinoza
| | 4/10/2009 5:43:56 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
cricket128
Ocala, FL
age: 57
| Many of the "founding Father's" were, IMO, simply like many other's - "believer's" because that is what was drilled into them by their parents and society-as-a-whole back then. There have been many great American's who DID NOT believe...here are a few (the first two being "founding father's":
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
=-John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, Famous Atheist & superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
"In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people."
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." "
-James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836).
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."
-Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
"My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic."
-Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author
And I leave you with:
"Faith is believing something you know ain’t true."
"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian."
"It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies."
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows."
"Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light … by contrast."
"I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind & keep them shut by force."
"If there is a God, he is a malign thug."
"'In God We Trust.' I don't believe it would sound any better if it were true."
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
"Man is a marvelous curiosity . . . he thinks he is the Creator's pet . . . he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea." [Letters from the Earth]
Mr. Clemens was once asked whether he feared death. He said that he did not, in view of the fact that he had been dead for billions and billions of years before he was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. "
- Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist (1835-1910).
| | 4/10/2009 6:08:33 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | cguard04
Cumming, GA
age: 31
| -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thirdly, the Declaration of Independence announced the One People, assuming their station among the powers of the earth, as a civilized, religious, and Christian People, – acknowledging themselves bound by the obligations, and claiming the rights, to which they were entitled by the laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.
- John Quincy Adams
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"After His resurrection He commanded His disciples to preach the
Gospel of forgiveness.. the Son of God died not only
to reconcile God to man but to reconcile men to each other."
- Benjamin Rush
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Samuel Adams
Father of the American Revolution, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
I . . . recommend my Soul to that Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.
- Will of Samuel Adams
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Carroll
Signer of the Declaration of Independence
On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts.
From an autographed letter in our possession written by Charles Carroll to Charles W. Wharton, Esq., on September 27, 1825, from Doughoragen, Maryland.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Cushing
First Associate Justice Appointed by George Washington to the Supreme Court
Sensible of my mortality, but being of sound mind, after recommending my soul to Almighty God through the merits of my Redeemer and my body to the earth . . .
Will of William Cushing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signer of the Constitution
Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.
Will of John D*ckinson
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
And finally I leave you with this:
John Hanc*ck
Signer of the Declaration of Independence
I John Hanc*ck, . . . being advanced in years and being of perfect mind and memory-thanks be given to God-therefore calling to mind the mortality of my body and knowing it is appointed for all men once to die [Hebrews 9:27], do make and ordain this my last will and testament…Principally and first of all, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of God that gave it: and my body I recommend to the earth . . . nothing doubting but at the general resurrection I shall receive the same again by the mercy and power of God. . .
Will of John Hanc*ck
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion:
The U.S. Constitution is signed 1787 the Year of our Lord, the Declaration of Independence
states the following:
.
1.) All men are created equal endowed by their Creator.
2.) the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them
3.) With a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence
-----------------------------------------------------------------
My goal in this forum is not to condemn or to disparage but to identify observable facts... There is a clear and unequivocal evidence on the Judeo-Christian influence that
started the Nation of the United States. Before there was War of Independence there
was First Great Awakening lead by Pastor George Whitfield, before the Civil War
there was the Second Great Awakening lead by Pastor Charles Finney...
One can not separate the History of the United States and this nation's Christian influence... In fact because of this nation's Christian influence, people from all religions around the world pursue to become citizens of this country because it is not the will of Christian teaching force one to submit to religion, but allow each individual to make their own informed decision of what religion they choose. Other countries hold such a rigid policy towards their citizens worshipping arbitrarily that one may risk there life,if one doesn't practice the state sponsored religion. Again, that's what makes this country of ours, the United States of America, so great, because I am not going to pick up a stone and toss it at my fellow neighbor because we do not agree on religion or how to worship and hopefully my follow neighbor will provide the same respect towards me.
And despite what President Obama said, recently, if one peels the onion of American History one will see Judeo-Christian principles at the core of this countries founding.
Have a great day and thank you for providing the opportunity for me add to this discussion.
Carlos "Created In God's Image" Espinoza
| | 4/10/2009 7:23:08 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| Wow, I must learn! To live in the world of diversity.
And how are you doing today. Are you having a great day so far... I wish a great
and blessed Good Friday & weekend.
You must agree with me that we live in a pretty great country. And yes let's admit this
country was founded on Christian principles. Yet we can have an open debate today, just as an FYI, why are bibles banned from public schools today and\or the teaching of the bible banned? After all is that not a form of reverse discrimination, in which Christians are responsible to pay for a secular education system in the form of taxes. Why isn't there an open debate in which the bible which holds indisputable historical facts is not an available course a student can take in the public school system?
The bible is comprised of over 60 books, 67 books to be exact, should all the books of the bible and historical events of the bible be prohibited from being taught in public school in the name of diversity.
By the way what's the definition of diversity. Hopefully its not defined as tolerate all
beliefs, but ban just one.
With that said, per your reference to history, that the bible was once a required textbook
in public schools. It is apparent that America's founding father's philosophy and goals were to establish a more perfect union based on the principles of the bible.
Here's a quote from founding father Benjamin Rush:
But passing by all other considerations, and contemplating merely the political institutions of the United States, I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them. We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this divine book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and all those sober and frugal virtues which constitute the soul of republicanism.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Bible_in_schools.html
I think this forum is an awesome incubator for lively and friendly debate, to unravel hyperbole & to identify the truth. Look forward to hearing your feedback on this tread.
Have a good one.
Carlos "Created In God's Image" Espinoza
I just want to respond to a few points. First of all, our nation was founded on Christian principles? Principles such as slavery? Women as property who their husbands are free to rape and abuse? Only the wealthy (land owners) having the right to vote? These are Christian principles? No, our country was founded by men, many of who's religion happened to be Christianity and of course they spoke in those terms. They did not intend this to be a "Christian" nation.
The Bible DOES hold indisputable historical facts. It is undeniable that the Bible has a lot right when it comes to history, but it also has a lot wrong. Like any religious text or foundation story, it is mixed with a lot of mythology and a lot of convenient re-remembering (re-writing) of events. Having historical facts correct only means that it was probably written by people aware of those facts.
The Bible IS taught in public school, if you extend that to college. It is not appropriate to teach a religious text prior to that unless one were to have a comprehensive course (in high school at the earliest) wherein many religious texts are explored. The Hindu religion has mounds of texts, much more historical and voluminous than the Bible, should those also be taught in school because of their historical value?
I am currently enrolled in a "Philosophy of the Bible" class at my local public community college. College is the appropriate place to discuss religious ideology rather than teaching it to hormonal teenagers who will latch on to anything to give themselves some stability. (not saying that's all teenagers, but enough.) Nor teaching it to impressionable youth who will believe just about anything their authority figure (mom, dad, teachers) feed to them. At the college level one is (hopefully) better prepared to think and reason. School is for thinking and reasoning, not blind belief. Blind belief is for the churches to teach.
I cringe at the thought of all youth being raised with the principles of Christianity, especially modern Christianity. If you meant Yeshua's non-hateful, non-judgmental, loving, caring for everyone kind of Christianity without all the "he died for you so feel guilty" or "Love your gay brothers, but pray for their sin" type of crap, then I'd be more for it. However, Christianity today is mostly a political institution and has been since the Roman Emperor Constantine made it such. I would not want that sort of mindless indoctrination (or any sort of mindless indoctrination) happening to our children.
Yes, we need to engage in crime prevention, not just punishment, but brainwashing the masses with lies used to keep the wealthy in money and power is despicable. The answer is in acceptance of one another, not marginalization of anyone not in lock-step agreement with our religious views.
| | 4/10/2009 11:11:16 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Cg: My goal in this forum is not to condemn or to disparage but to identify observable facts... There is a clear and unequivocal evidence on the Judeo-Christian influence that
started the Nation of the United States
In case you hadn't noticed, what you wish to discuss has NOTHING to do with this thread.. I am not even an american, nor are many who post in here. Ethnocentrism holds precisely zero interest for me.
And exclusivity of truth is inappropriate here, this group is inclusive to all views.. those who cannot comprehend that we live in an increasingly pluralistic world and seek to preach as opposed to share will not last here. And just so you know, if you continue to push your beliefs as though they are or should be true for all.. I WILL block you.
Good day.
| | 4/10/2009 1:59:54 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
alicekathleen
Sacramento, CA
age: 64
| Ptthtttt! That's my tongue sticking out at any of that christian stuff crammed down our throats. To each his own,
and guess what? It is 2009 now, not 1709. Take it back one hundred years more and you guys would be burning
all of us here on the stakes. Thousands, mostly women, were killed as "witches" by the christians in Europe. I can
forget all that, after all, consciousness does rise and people do change. But please, keep the dogma in private life.
I can accept that your views are different from mine. Why can you not accept the same of nonchristians? Forget the
quotes and the "Founding Fathers", and simply speak for yourself, now. Agree to disagree and to let others be.
I worked in a Catholic hospital for 20 years and simply let them be, never tried to "convert" others. Could you not
do the same? Just enjoy the discussions?
| | 4/10/2009 2:40:19 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| It's really sad that in this thread that seemed to originally be about working together has devolved into what it has recently. While some Christians who have responded have been very respectful, others have been quite the opposite and this sort of thing that dominates conversation is what turns people away from even wanting Christians here.
It'd be nice if we could have Christians here who would neither dominate the threads with preaching nor turn all discussions to Jesus/Yeshua and the Bible. It would be very nice to just have intelligent conversation without having to be badgered with the Bible and statements of faith over fact.
Sadly, even in this thread where we were trying to point out those with whom we have had great discussion, those who only preach mindless faith statements are the ones who ended up posting the most, or at least the loudest, most recently.
One poster was correct in saying we should also not be promoting one country over another among such an international group. It just doesn't foster harmony. 
Namaste,
Daniel
[Edited 4/10/2009 2:41:16 PM PST]
| | 4/10/2009 6:33:09 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| It makes me sad too.. things were going so well...
Oh well, if nothing else, it serves to highlight the issue...
| | 4/11/2009 1:41:21 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | cguard04
Cumming, GA
age: 31
| Well it definitely appears I have far exceeded my welcome here. Nothing like a rebel
rouser to shake things up in the village...
I enjoyed engaging in debates with others that hold a different set of beliefs and
conclusions then my own.
Everyone's feedback definitely sparked an interest from my side, to hear a
different perspective was certainly an eye-opening experience.
And to be honest I love to mix it up, I practice mixed martial arts after all, I'm
use to getting my teeth kicked in... 
And I admit the gospel of the Cross is an offensive subject, that is piercing like a
two edged sword... And is not compatible in this forum. Irregardless I know that the
gospel of the Cross is the truth.
With that said, I will disengage from this forum and leave in peace.
And to my Candadian neighbor to the North, thanks for allowing me to contribute to this
forum. Go Calgary Flames!
I do not want to crash your guys party here.
I hoped to have responded to Wolf's comments in this group, but I think its more appropriate ,if you have free time that is, to visit my profile.
You will find my responses to Wolf's
comments at my profile via the blogs listed below, if you are interested that is:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Blog 1: Is America a Christian Nation?
Blog 2: United States of America's Founding Fathers and Slavery
Blog 3: Is marriage more beneficial for the husband or the wife?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish everyone here the best. 
Have a good one.
Carlos "Created In God's Image" Espinoza
| | 4/11/2009 7:39:45 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| Well it definitely appears I have far exceeded my welcome here. Nothing like a rebel
rouser to shake things up in the village...
I enjoyed engaging in debates with others that hold a different set of beliefs and
conclusions then my own.
Everyone's feedback definitely sparked an interest from my side, to hear a
different perspective was certainly an eye-opening experience.
And to be honest I love to mix it up, I practice mixed martial arts after all, I'm
use to getting my teeth kicked in...
And I admit the gospel of the Cross is an offensive subject, that is piercing like a
two edged sword... And is not compatible in this forum. Irregardless I know that the
gospel of the Cross is the truth.
With that said, I will disengage from this forum and leave in peace.
And to my Candadian neighbor to the North, thanks for allowing me to contribute to this
forum. Go Calgary Flames!
I do not want to crash your guys party here.
I hoped to have responded to Wolf's comments in this group, but I think its more appropriate ,if you have free time that is, to visit my profile.
You will find my responses to Wolf's
comments at my profile via the blogs listed below, if you are interested that is:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Blog 1: Is America a Christian Nation?
Blog 2: United States of America's Founding Fathers and Slavery
Blog 3: Is marriage more beneficial for the husband or the wife?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish everyone here the best.
Have a good one.
Carlos "Created In God's Image" Espinoza
I hate to say it, but I was unimpressed with the message you sent me regarding the founding fathers and slavery. Your argument was full of logical and informal fallacies. I'm not sure that I would read further.
Anyway, feel free to speak to me in message as long as its kept respectful.
| | 4/11/2009 11:24:09 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Cg: And I admit the gospel of the Cross is an offensive subject, that is piercing like a
two edged sword... And is not compatible in this forum. Irregardless I know that the
gospel of the Cross is the truth.
It isn't the 'gospel of the cross' that is offensive or even incompatible in this group.. what is offensive and incompatible is the idea that there is only ONE way to God. This group celebrates many paths to God, and we all enjoy learning from one another. This group is inclusive and open to ALL faiths, including yours. But the moment a person starts claiming that their way is the only way is the moment that it becomes inappropriate.
Therefore it has nothing to do with what you hold as true.. the problem is when your truth attempts to negate the truth of others..
| | 4/11/2009 6:21:30 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | spiritwalker69
Boise, ID
age: 69
| This group is for other religions. If Christians wish to post I find no problem. If however christians wish to condemn belittle and put down they not only violate the spirit of the group. These people violate the rules of DH. There is a place on DH for a mixture of all religions. That place is the forum called "Religion" Christians can and do post there as well as others. I believe that we welcome Christians who wish to express a belief but we do not need christians who are attempting "Save Souls" If that is your goal Go away. We don't need rude ignorant people.
| | 4/11/2009 7:46:29 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| This group is for other religions. If Christians wish to post I find no problem. If however christians wish to condemn belittle and put down they not only violate the spirit of the group. These people violate the rules of DH. There is a place on DH for a mixture of all religions. That place is the forum called "Religion" Christians can and do post there as well as others. I believe that we welcome Christians who wish to express a belief but we do not need christians who are attempting "Save Souls" If that is your goal Go away. We don't need rude ignorant people.
Exactly. I think that's the point most of us have tried to make. Well put.
Namaste,
Daniel
| | 4/12/2009 6:50:13 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | 
chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 47
| It really doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me or not....In the end whatever the truth is will be revealed...and if what we Christians believe is the truth....the rest will know it, but unfortunately For them it will be too late...So basicly time will tell.. but for the record I love all people wether they agree with me or not...  
| | 4/12/2009 10:38:53 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
wolfyhp
Atascadero, CA
age: 36
| It really doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me or not....In the end whatever the truth is will be revealed...and if what we Christians believe is the truth....the rest will know it, but unfortunately For them it will be too late...So basicly time will tell.. but for the record I love all people wether they agree with me or not...
And if what some other religion says happens to be right, then the rest of us are screwed in many cases, including the Christians. See, that's why you can't claim a monopoly on truth or treat other religions as if they have no value compared to yours.
Keep heart, many of us love all as deeply as you do. Just because we don't follow your mythos doesn't mean we don't follow the same message. Be in peace.
Namaste,
Daniel
| | 4/13/2009 12:12:08 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 47
| And if what some other religion says happens to be right, then the rest of us are screwed in many cases, including the Christians. See, that's why you can't claim a monopoly on truth or treat other religions as if they have no value compared to yours.
Keep heart, many of us love all as deeply as you do. Just because we don't follow your mythos doesn't mean we don't follow the same message. Be in peace.
Namaste,
Daniel
Then my friend Time will tell....My faith is based on a PERSONAL relationship with my creator...I am not going to try to convince anyone to believe my way...conviction comes from the Holy spirit...Convicting isn't my job...My Job is to love you regardless of wether or not we agree.
| | 4/13/2009 12:22:27 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 47
| Cg: And I admit the gospel of the Cross is an offensive subject, that is piercing like a
two edged sword... And is not compatible in this forum. Irregardless I know that the
gospel of the Cross is the truth.
It isn't the 'gospel of the cross' that is offensive or even incompatible in this group.. what is offensive and incompatible is the idea that there is only ONE way to God. This group celebrates many paths to God, and we all enjoy learning from one another. This group is inclusive and open to ALL faiths, including yours. But the moment a person starts claiming that their way is the only way is the moment that it becomes inappropriate.
Therefore it has nothing to do with what you hold as true.. the problem is when your truth attempts to negate the truth of others..
But that's the point...To say you can get to God through any other method is saying Jesus Died for nothing. Because According to scripture the only way to God Is through the shed blood of Jesus...
What it sounds like is there is no absolutes what ever is truth for you is truth...what ever is thruth forsomeone else is their truth....sort of like saying a tomatoe is purple when really it is Red....That is the truth tomatoes are not purple...You can say it all day long but it won't make it fact or truth...They are red (except if they are not completely ripe yet)
All I am saying It is ilogical to have no absolutes there are truths that will not change no matter what yours or my truth is.
| | 4/13/2009 8:00:56 AM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
voevode
Seattle, WA
age: 56
| But that's the point...To say you can get to God through any other method is saying Jesus Died for nothing. Because According to scripture the only way to God Is through the shed blood of Jesus...
What it sounds like is there is no absolutes what ever is truth for you is truth...what ever is thruth forsomeone else is their truth....sort of like saying a tomatoe is purple when really it is Red....That is the truth tomatoes are not purple...You can say it all day long but it won't make it fact or truth...They are red (except if they are not completely ripe yet)
All I am saying It is ilogical to have no absolutes there are truths that will not change no matter what yours or my truth is.
There are Islamic Extremists whose path is far more absolute than any you will ever walk. Absolutes are not always a good thing.
You used tomatoes as a symbol of the truth—let’s go with that. You say a tomato is red and that is the truth. I agree with you. But what if my color sense was off? What if when I say the tomato is purple, it is because that is the color I’m seeing? For me, that tomato is purple and that is also the truth. It may not be the truth—but it is definitely the truth I see.
And if we’re speaking of absolutes—sometimes absolutes need to be qualified. You did that yourself. You said that the tomatoes are red, and you are using that as an example of absolutes—tomatoes are red—they are always red [except if they are not completely ripe yet].
You see—it doesn’t sound so completely absolute now, does it?
You can go on saying, Well, tomatoes are absolutely always red, except for the times when they are not yet ripe [in which case they are absolutely green]. But then, when somebody draws your attention to the color rotten tomatoes are, or tomatoes killed by a frost, or tomatoes crapped on by crows...
The list can go on and on, each time getting more and more specific, more and more qualifications added—but each time being an absolute. In the end, as far as the color of tomatoes goes, the only thing you can lawfully say is that each tomato that exists is whatever color it is. This tomato here is absolutely red, while this next one not fully ripe is absolutely red, with some orange—and some green...and so on.
When you get down to it, you can only speak for yourself—you can only say for yourself what is absolute. For you that absolute is the path of Jesus Christ. That path calls to you, absolutely. But you cannot say what path is absolute for anyone else. You do not walk in their moccasins.
And there is another thing—people don’t always have the purest motives for the path they’re on—the Truth that is true for them. I have seen pagans that have followed their chosen path with deep devotion—and I have seen pagans whose following of that path was extremely shallow and ignorant. I’m sure you could say the same for Christians [I know I can!]
One thing I can say in relation to absolutes—I followed that path of Jesus Christ absolutely—and I was nearly driven mad by it. How absolutely would you say you follow it? You point to the Scriptures, so I will leave you with a few:
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
[Luke 14:33]
Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
[Luke 12:33]
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
[Luke 18:22-30]
| | 4/13/2009 12:36:02 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| chat girl: But that's the point...To say you can get to God through any other method is saying Jesus Died for nothing. Because According to scripture the only way to God Is through the shed blood of Jesus...
You see scripture as the inerrant word of God. I do not. Which of us is correct? The one with the proof... got any?
What it sounds like is there is no absolutes what ever is truth for you is truth...what ever is thruth forsomeone else is their truth....sort of like saying a tomatoe is purple when really it is Red....That is the truth tomatoes are not purple...You can say it all day long but it won't make it fact or truth...They are red (except if they are not completely ripe yet)
All I am saying It is ilogical to have no absolutes there are truths that will not change no matter what yours or my truth is
Got proof that the tomatoe is red?
This is personal, but as a child of about 7, I remember commenting about my sweater being red... my mother not only insisted, she TOLD me it was orange.. but I saw red. I tried to explain my position, that I wasn't trying to be 'defiant' as she always believed, it's just that to me it had a darker tint which warranted it being more of a red than a dark orange. Who cares right? My mom got sooooooo worked up over that that she beat me.
I could have said that it was orange to escape it, but that aint what I saw and I did not understand what the problem was. I wasn't even being snotty, just sharing what I percieved...
What color was that sweater chat girl?
I believe that truth is absolutely absolute.. but all we have to apprehend it with is our own subjective mind.. a bit of a paradox, yes.. but one I am more than comfortable with. If you are not? Feel free to stay in your black and white world.
Toodles.
[Edited 4/13/2009 12:42:04 PM PST]
| | 4/13/2009 1:09:50 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | spiritwalker69
Boise, ID
age: 69
| As I see it this not the place for Evangelizing and certainly not the place for Protalization. If your faith is in the Judeo-Christian God-and Jesus that is your right. the same as it is my right to have an alignment with the Greek Goddess, Hekate. Your belief is right for you. Just as mine is for me if you wish to convert souls for Jesus that is your right also however do it in the proper forum. Don't come into a Group called other religions and spew forth your beliefs and say that other members of that group are wrong. Thy may b wrong in your opinion but it is your opinion. I respect your right to believe as you see fit. I only ask that you respect my beliefs also. Most Pagan denominations do not seek converts we accept whom the Lady sends. We fully relize that how we believe is not for everyone and we respect others right of choise
| | 4/13/2009 5:07:59 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | | akforrest7
Akron, OH
age: 20
| So I suppose that everyone that lived prior to Yeshua, and all the billions of generaly good people that never heard the word, because the word had not reached their area of the world, are going to hell because the only word they ever heard was the word of the devil, which more times then not was to love your neighbor and dp unto others as you would have them do to you. Thats evil because God just does not have the ability to reach others that are not from the middle east. Yeah that makes perfect sense. Christian churches dont even agree on the same meanings of all of the scriptures, they never did. The way many Christians will make it seem is that if you are not from their church and did not go to their church the same day they did you are going to Hell. If after 2000 years you do not agree that means that the meaning of the scriptures depends on what the individual makes of them. Everyone is different and are reached in different ways, depending on the unique variables that makes you,you. If this is true, then why wouldn't God make different mediums depending on the culture of that area of the world. We are all here to learn a lesson, and we all have different lesson that we need to learn, to develope our conciousness/ soul/ spirit... So that we can reach the highest levels of the spirit realm or become closer to God.
| | 4/13/2009 6:51:33 PM | Should Christians be allowed to post in here? | |
chat_girl
Desoto, TX
age: 47
| What if you qre right?
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