| 4/11/2009 7:49:08 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | | 
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Apparently the last thread I started on this was offensive? No one seemed to want to answer the questions I had posed.. and then it was suddenly deleted without explanation 
Obviously we all influence each other's belief system to some degree or another.. this is inevitable and imo beneficial.. but what I am specifically getting at is the influence of those who feel that everyone should believe as they do..
For those of you who do feel this way, I am curious.. what are the methods you use to bring non-believers over to your faith? Do you draw a line on the methods used? Or is there a line in your mind? Is a person's salvation justification for any methods used?
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
[Edited 4/11/2009 7:55:51 PM PST]
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| 4/11/2009 8:47:10 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| Shakti,
Yeshua was very charismatic, there are many out there who are also charismatic, I think that plays a major role in evangelizing. Take a look at the following of Joel Osteen.
Many of us of the faith should not concern ourselves with trying to convert others to our beliefs, we have a hard enough time being righteous as YhWh would have us to be. To those who are meek and poor, in the spirit (good stewards of the Lord's resources) we should pray for wisdom and knowledge (not only in scripture but how the world thinks) in that we can defend our faith as not to be swayed into questioning it. As we can only plant the seed to where the Lord can work the soul.
But, as we see in the Hindu clip you posted, cash and false promises work too.
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| 4/11/2009 9:15:02 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Yay!! Someone answered me!
Shakti,
Yeshua was very charismatic, there are many out there who are also charismatic, I think that plays a major role in evangelizing.
I agree that some are charismatic, but what does that mean exactly? Is this a really big ego that draws people in, or is it their spirit which reaches out?
I know which I believe it to be.
Many of us of the faith should not concern ourselves with trying to convert others to our beliefs, we have a hard enough time being righteous as YhWh would have us to be.
And I would absolutely agree! But isn't it true that you want everyone to be christian? In your interactions with non-christians, is it difficult to keep that feeling at bay? Do things sometimes slip out?
To those who are meek and poor, in the spirit (good stewards of the Lord's resources) we should pray for wisdom and knowledge (not only in scripture but how the world thinks) in that we can defend our faith as not to be swayed into questioning it.
Intersting.. how does defending your faith make you question it? And what's more.. why does it need defending?
To defend implies you fear its loss....
As we can only plant the seed to where the Lord can work the soul.
I like that.. tell me more about planting a seed.. how is that done?
But, as we see in the Hindu clip you posted, cash and false promises work too.
Perhaps that is why my first thread on this got deleted? But it does happen all the time..
Thank you Lovesgod, I really appreciate your feedback : )
[Edited 4/11/2009 9:16:43 PM PST]
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| 4/11/2009 9:23:23 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| Shakti, allow me to present this clip from my media mentor as an example of my post.
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| 4/11/2009 9:36:15 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
mister_godot
Omaha, NE
age: 49
| Shakti, allow me to present this clip from my media mentor as an example of my post.
I stopped listening to this after it claimed that Hindus were into Idolatry. They are not. For a Christian, when one prays before a cross are they engaging in Idolatry? Clearly this person has not an inkling of what Murtis are...
[Edited 4/11/2009 9:36:34 PM PST]
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| 4/11/2009 9:38:09 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
in_doubtalishis
Beaumont, CA
age: 34
| STOP TRYING TO BRAINWASH ME 
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| 4/11/2009 9:43:09 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Well I thought much of that was good, but wow, did he ever lose me with his all out rant on the new age movement at the end, what was the point of that? The two mindsets he was talking about don't even have to be mutually exclusive, oh my.
Anyway, there were a few points I jotted down for further discussion:
He mentions loving the hindu for who they are.. but how is that possible when you want him to change who he is at the core?
Also, he mentions allowing the holy spirit to intervene.. then what need is there of you?
And the 5th point which rushed on by.. the young are the most open.. smacks of indoctrination 
As to their being seeped in idolotry? That is nothing but an ethnocentric view being imposed on the mindset of those people... which is worse?
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| 4/11/2009 9:44:03 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
leadman_
Lake Dallas, TX
age: 47
| Wouldn't really try to influence anyone - better to find good in people 
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| 4/11/2009 9:44:53 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
bubba19682007
Pilot Point, TX
age: 41
|
But its SOOOO dirty in doubt,,, it needs washing
ARC
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| 4/11/2009 9:48:27 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| ^^ I have seen your posts and know that you are big on exclusivity of truth.. why haven't you answered the question?
STOP TRYING TO BRAINWASH ME
Don't be such a victim, lol...
[Edited 4/11/2009 9:49:50 PM PST]
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| 4/11/2009 9:51:21 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
statueman
Riverside, CA
age: 45
| shakti
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
I think in your question you say exactly what I've come to believe... key word is influence. Too many try to preach as if they have the authority that Christ had. As I'm fond of saying if they haven't walked on water or raised the dead lately then perhaps humble influence is better.
Now my real name is Peter and like the Apostle I have said to my Lord "If that is you then bid me walk on the water with you!" And much like Peter I've taken my eye's off Jesus distracted by the wind and the waves and began to sink only to need Jesus help to save me from my own doubts.
What's the best way to influence one another spiritually? I think by being exactly who we are and honest with each other so that the truth will be the most influential part of our relationships. After all... where is truth without honesty and how can we learn to be honest without seeking to know truth?
How can I reveal the secrets or your heart if I don't know my own... and honestly, who really knows even their own heart? I like what John said in one of his letters... God is greater than our hearts.
Chose influence over authority, mercy over judgment, honesty and love over pity and condescension.
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| 4/11/2009 9:58:32 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Stats: What's the best way to influence one another spiritually? I think by being exactly who we are and honest with each other so that the truth will be the most influential part of our relationships. After all... where is truth without honesty and how can we learn to be honest without seeking to know truth?
How can I reveal the secrets or your heart if I don't know my own... and honestly, who really knows even their own heart?
This reached straight to my heart Peter.. absolutely beautiful and I know you mean every word of it, such an honor to have come to the 'other side' with you 
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| 4/11/2009 10:27:48 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| Well I thought much of that was good, but wow, did he ever lose me with his all out rant on the new age movement at the end, what was the point of that? The two mindsets he was talking about don't even have to be mutually exclusive, oh my.
The visa story, and the way different religious beliefs can effect a culture. Notice he said you have to go slow, we all automatically go on the defence when what we believe in is challenged.
He mentions loving the hindu for who they are.. but how is that possible when you want him to change who he is at the core?
What is the wish of YhWh, that none should perish, right? How do we get to YhWh? Through Christ. How is the message of Christ spread? Through evangelizing. Wouldn't those of the faith want to see the will of the Lord done?
Also, he mentions allowing the holy spirit to intervene.. then what need is there of you?
Planting seeds, sharing testimony, being the word of the Lord.
And the 5th point which rushed on by.. the young are the most open.. smacks of indoctrination
What do we do in our public school system today (quite poorly I might add)?
As to their being seeped in idolotry? That is nothing but an ethnocentric view being imposed on the mindset of those people... which is worse?
Hmmmm, do we worship YhWh in a physical form? Do we give thanks to a golden idol(s)?
As far as I can see, Hinduism is the perfect religion for humanist. How can you lose? Even if you come back as a dog or a pig, eventually you're gonna get another chance at life. But isn't truth what makes Christianity better, the fact that Christ did die on the cross for the world's sins and was ressurected? That, because of that act alone, we will dwell in the Kingdom, in the presence of YhWh forever?
Where in Hindu text are the testimonies of over 500 eyewitnesses to see the works of Krishna?
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| 4/11/2009 10:36:37 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
sharedmercy
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 54
| For me, Christ was the Spirit of God's love and truth; God's forgivenenss.
It's not whether one comes over to 'my side'. It's that I am commanded to share God's truth of salvation and prophesy in love, by planting the seed of knowledge about the sacrifice of Christ and what this means to the hearer.
Jesus tells the parable of the sower in Matthew chapter 13, and what this means. He tells us that the seed is the word of the Kingdom sent from God by His servant
Christ [sower] and Christs' followers [Christs' servants].
I see so many lives without hope, without love, full of emptiness [without direction], and sorrow, that I try to use my behavior, my speech, my gifts/talents as a living testimony to show others how God's Saving Grace and Power, has lifted me up, and turned my life around.
Thanks for asking 
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| 4/11/2009 10:41:37 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
leadman_
Lake Dallas, TX
age: 47
| PS – Just a side note, but I wouldn’t try to influence a date either. Some things should just happen
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| 4/12/2009 12:13:30 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
casheyesblond
Belmont, NC
age: 45
| hey baby girl.I'd like to share over this way.And because I know that my beliefs may differ from others,so I just want to add that my post is belief and faith only:
I think the line gets crossed quite often.And please forgive me if anyone feels as though I have trespassed when I say that so often I see another as if he/she is standing high on a mountain top looking down on "the ant people" as if it were their duty to raise their most highest dogmatic voice only to break others down.Is this so one can build him/herself up while doing so? And furthermore,what this one refers to as the word of G-d,then I ask,were these words written and intended and used to always break others down instead of trying to build others up ?---for indeed,have we not all,at sometime or another,been caught in the rain and what we needed the most from another at that time was a touch of humanity and humility--and I believe that when one embraces humility in such a way,that the angels all rejoice.
But still yet and also,I feel like one has crossed that line each time he/she argues back and forth using scriptures.Was these words not intended instead for one to ponder in his(choice of pronoun)name and ponder what can I do in his name?
Interesting.. how does defending your faith make you question it? And what's more.. why does it need defending?
I believe that often what another refers to as defending his/her faith can sometimes demonstrate one not pass ego---in other words, pride is what this one is defending instead.As for faith,if one's faith is strong---then others can't hurt that kind of faith--so therefore,it needs no defense.
I like that.. tell me more about planting a seed.. how is that done?
the second verse of something I'd written a while back;
I know that seasons have a beginning and season's have an end,
as the farmer plants his seed,patiently stands firm,awaiting his blessing to begin
And with a strong right arm,with all his being.....to be still and just listen.
And I think that's the hard part---to be still and listen
so that one may hear G-d's soft whisper.And indeed,sometimes it takes getting caught in the rain to be able to embrace humility and embrace others----and the thing is,I didn't go through the valley to get to a top of a mountain just so I could look down on others that may choose not to adopt or foster my beliefs---but don't get me wrong,I do love to share,that is if someone wants to hear more about my passion for the spirit,it's a sheer delight to share.
I also believe as it is written that "our lips gives voice to our soul."
Well this is my soul speaking out loud when I say that I spent years running,refusing to surrender to anything/anyone.And the way I looked at it,hey I ain't lost---as it is written,this cool cat came down to save those that were lost--- sure wasn't talking about me at the time--when people were talking about finding Jesus,the way I looked at it,one doesn't need to find or be found if ya ain't lost---but dang if I wasn't still running and running with no direction until one day,I couldn't run anymore and I couldn't fix all that was broken and all that was broken in me--and suddenly there I was,fully exposed and suddenly,it was like many rivers flowing within me,this fountain and resurrection of hope and I was so humbled---humbled the way the "mother earth humbles herself to the laws of nature"--- in this way, I surrendered all and I did find him and found myself again.
I guess the reason I shared this,it was not the ones preaching judgment and hell at me that was "planting a seed" so to speak and/or the ones that came down from their lofty places to do their duty of trying to make me accountable with whatever chapter and verse they could find that would help them condemn me to this place they called hell so to speak.
I do not believe that these ones planted a seed but these ones truly thought they were doing G-d's will and planting seeds but here's the thing;If it doesn't take root,then it's failed it's task!
The testament of power is truly in the root of the tree for indeed it is the root that lives on,is it not?
In actuality,I believe it was the ones that embraced me while I was standing in the rain,showing me warmth and kindness--to me,these ones were planting a seed---it was in their "being" that showed me that for these ones,the root is always near,in the mouth,and of the heart,it is inside.
[Edited 4/12/2009 12:27:27 AM PST]
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| 4/12/2009 4:35:49 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
dumbdotcom
Debert, NS
age: 82
| In actuality,I believe it was the ones that embraced me while I was standing in the rain,showing me warmth and kindness--to me,these ones were planting a seed---it was in their "being" that showed me that for these ones,the root is always near,in the mouth,and of the heart,it is inside.
So So beautiful, the heart of a poet indeed. Cashey, your words never fail to move me.
And like you, my heart was deeply deeply influenced by those whose kindness shone through their eyes towards me. Those who saw a woman who was deeply angry and confused, yet saw some worth in my fierceness. Those who would delight in helping, just cos. The many faces who lent a hand while I struggled through school, struggled while bringing up two kids alone, struggled through various injuries and illnesses, all of them, from every background....my heart overflows from their kindnesses.
I don't recall any of them trying to convert me. Perhaps they knew that I would shut down in front of their very eyes. Perhaps they knew that I would find my way by the actions of others.
I've often thought about the people who I've encountered along the way. Everyone has taught me something. But it is the look in their eyes that stays with me, after all these years. Those who have had compassion and recognised the worth in everyone are the people who influenced me.
Those who do not deny anyone, you can tell who they are. You can tell in their eyes. It's almost as if they see right through you, and *Love* you anyway! I've had the unbelievable fortune to have had many such people such as this along my path. Many were Native Americans, but also a nun and a priest, lol a Rasta man ( made me laugh OMG), Inuit Elders, an Australian dog musher (I know!), a deli owner in Montreal, various teachers, just SO many people who have that Light.....
These folks influenced me. Not their religion, but their human-ness. The ones who figured out that we're all in this together.
Cheers on this Easter morning, Raven
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| 4/12/2009 5:48:28 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
aposorichie
Berwyn, IL
age: 53
| For me, Christ was the Spirit of God's love and truth; God's forgivenenss.
It's not whether one comes over to 'my side'. It's that I am commanded to share God's truth of salvation and prophesy in love, by planting the seed of knowledge about the sacrifice of Christ and what this means to the hearer.
Jesus tells the parable of the sower in Matthew chapter 13, and what this means. He tells us that the seed is the word of the Kingdom sent from God by His servant
Christ [sower] and Christs' followers [Christs' servants].
I see so many lives without hope, without love, full of emptiness [without direction], and sorrow, that I try to use my behavior, my speech, my gifts/talents as a living testimony to show others how God's Saving Grace and Power, has lifted me up, and turned my life around.
Thanks for asking
Christians are commisioned by Christ to preach the gospel to everyone. We don't know how the kingdom grows and we may not see a harvest because one plants, one waters one reaps. Jesus said that we must understand the parable of the sower without it we can't understand any of the parables.
If anyone wants eternal life get to know Jesus. He said he would rise from the dead and he did. His grave is empty. 
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| 4/12/2009 7:19:40 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
statueman
Riverside, CA
age: 45
| Christians are commisioned by Christ to preach the gospel to everyone. We don't know how the kingdom grows and we may not see a harvest because one plants, one waters one reaps. Jesus said that we must understand the parable of the sower without it we can't understand any of the parables.
If anyone wants eternal life get to know Jesus. He said he would rise from the dead and he did. His grave is empty.
Indeed... you can't kill the author of life and the very message of life. Have many as Christians become so scriptural, so doctrinal and studied that they forget that doctrine and scripture did not save them. Why did Jesus tell the religious leaders of the day that they did not have salvation by searching the scriptures? Because the religious leaders of the day did not believe that Jesus was who he said he was even though the evidence for who he was and where he came from were unquestionable. And it's not that showing due diligence when studying the scripture isn't called for... it is however that the Spirit of Faith bids us mend our nets before we try catching fish... preparing our soil before we try sowing seed...
I once heard a preacher say that predestination and telling folks about predestination would make one wonder why any effort needed to go into living a life worthy of the true witness of Jesus saving grace. Evangelism falls short on Romans Road when practicing the Sermon on the Mount is so much more profoundly influencing to those around us. Jesus encouragements and prayer in John chapters 14-17 so much more moving and insightful than the words of Moses, Solomon and Isaiah combined and they themselves would say it!
Cashey and Raven (dumbdotcom)
I've often thought about the people who I've encountered along the way. Everyone has taught me something. But it is the look in their eyes that stays with me, after all these years. Those who have had compassion and recognised the worth in everyone are the people who influenced me. - Raven (dumbdotcom)
...suddenly there I was,fully exposed and suddenly,it was like many rivers flowing within me,this fountain and resurrection of hope and I was so humbled---humbled the way the "mother earth humbles herself to the laws of nature"--- in this way, I surrendered all and I did find him and found myself again. - casheyesblond
Of all the folks we've spoken with through the years... we are still here talking with one another... reading each others thoughts... hearing each others hearts... that to me I'm starting to see the influence we've had on how we each express how we believe what we believe. Isn't that amazing...? Let's all go to sassy shakti's and have baby shower.
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| 4/12/2009 7:48:59 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
rig216
Red Deer, AB
age: 47
| I think by being a model citizen in your community, someone who is known for being happy all the time, loving and caring, then you will indirectly influence others, or in a better position to directly influence others.
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| 4/12/2009 12:08:12 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| Interesting.. how does defending your faith make you question it? And what's more.. why does it need defending?
I believe that often what another refers to as defending his/her faith can sometimes demonstrate one not pass ego---in other words, pride is what this one is defending instead.As for faith,if one's faith is strong---then others can't hurt that kind of faith--so therefore,it needs no defense.
I like that.. tell me more about planting a seed.. how is that done?
the second verse of something I'd written a while back;
I know that seasons have a beginning and season's have an end,
as the farmer plants his seed,patiently stands firm,awaiting his blessing to begin
And with a strong right arm,with all his being.....to be still and just listen.
Just a rebuttal;
The Logical Defense of the Faith: Christian Apologetics in One Lesson
by Harvey Bluedorn, Copyright April 01, 1999, all rights
We are to be constantly walking in wisdom and always seasoned with grace in order that we may know how we ought to answer. We must always be prepared.
When we are personally called to give a defense of the faith, – which is also our faith – we should not be anxious about how to speak or what to say. We should always be fully prepared in the truth, so that we can give an answer without relying on some canned approach or some hastily drawn up response. We should always be prepared for a logical defense. If we do not know what we believe, or why we believe it, then how can we defend it? For that matter, why should we defend it? A faith which is not built upon solid ground cannot be solidly defended. To be properly prepared to defend the faith is really to be properly prepared to believe the faith. This is not just an appendix attached to the Christian religion. This is part of the essential Christian life. We should know – or at least be learning – how to defend our faith against all opposition, such that when we are done, our opposition has nothing to say – they are reduced to the assertions of their own imaginations. They will either admit we are speaking the truth, or they will try to shout us down and drown us out, or worse, they will try to put us away. That is the kind of faith in action which drives away the darkness and turns the world around.
To not be a soldier of the Lord makes one open to be a slave of the world. Isn't presenting logical elements much more effective than letting those continue to exist in their imaginings?
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| 4/12/2009 2:43:46 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Lovesgod.. do you realize that your first and second posts contradict each other?
The visa story, and the way different religious beliefs can effect a culture. Notice he said you have to go slow, we all automatically go on the defence when what we believe in is challenged.
Go slow.. kinda like how a pedophile does with children?
I didn't get defensive, I am not a 'new ager' so why would I? The man's voice changed when he began speaking about it, I could FEEL the prejudice. And as I said, the two mindsets East/West don't even need to be mutually exclusive.
What is the wish of YhWh, that none should perish, right? How do we get to YhWh? Through Christ. How is the message of Christ spread? Through evangelizing. Wouldn't those of the faith want to see the will of the Lord done?
But these are YOUR beliefs, what makes you think it is right to push them off on others who already have their own belief system that makes them happy? Would you want another to do that to you????
As I have asked, where does one draw the line on attempting to influence another's faith? Is a person's salvation in your mind justification for any means used? Or.. ?
What do we do in our public school system today (quite poorly I might add)?
Force religious beliefs onto children? Sure, in some instances, but that'll never happen on my watch.. even though some bold teachers in the public school district have attempted to overstep their bounds as such.
Hmmmm, do we worship YhWh in a physical form? Do we give thanks to a golden idol(s)?
As far as I can see, Hinduism is the perfect religion for humanist. How can you lose? Even if you come back as a dog or a pig, eventually you're gonna get another chance at life. But isn't truth what makes Christianity better, the fact that Christ did die on the cross for the world's sins and was ressurected? That, because of that act alone, we will dwell in the Kingdom, in the presence of YhWh forever?
Where in Hindu text are the testimonies of over 500 eyewitnesses to see the works of Krishna?
This is nothing but ignorance, prejudice, spiritual arrogance and ethnocentrism. This thread is about influencing another's faith and where to draw a line on that.. did that escape your comprehension?
Oh, and there is zero possibility of conversion here, just in case that needed to be said, lol...
Shared: For me, Christ was the Spirit of God's love and truth; God's forgivenenss.
It's not whether one comes over to 'my side'. It's that I am commanded to share God's truth of salvation and prophesy in love, by planting the seed of knowledge about the sacrifice of Christ and what this means to the hearer.
Jesus tells the parable of the sower in Matthew chapter 13, and what this means. He tells us that the seed is the word of the Kingdom sent from God by His servant
Christ [sower] and Christs' followers [Christs' servants].
I see so many lives without hope, without love, full of emptiness [without direction], and sorrow, that I try to use my behavior, my speech, my gifts/talents as a living testimony to show others how God's Saving Grace and Power, has lifted me up, and turned my life around.
Why haven't you answered the questions in the Op? I took great care in constructing them because I wanted them answered... I appreciate the feedback, but it isn't really answering my questions and sounds kinda like a euphemism to me.. just sayin!
leadman:PS – Just a side note, but I wouldn’t try to influence a date either. Some things should just happen
That is actually a fabulous correlation! Only those secure in who they are can accomplish it too.........
[Edited 4/12/2009 2:46:15 PM PST]
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| 4/12/2009 3:03:46 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Casheyes: In actuality,I believe it was the ones that embraced me while I was standing in the rain,showing me warmth and kindness--to me,these ones were planting a seed---it was in their "being" that showed me that for these ones,the root is always near,in the mouth,and of the heart,it is inside.
Beautiful as always!! So glad you have come to share!
May I say, you were one of the ones who reached across divisive lines with your warm heart in order to embrace me when I was standing in the rain and I will never forget you for it! We have had our differences of opinion, but when someone touches your heart, none of that matters anymore. And that is what it is about to me.. the , not dogma and doctrinal differences.
Raven:I've often thought about the people who I've encountered along the way. Everyone has taught me something. But it is the look in their eyes that stays with me, after all these years. Those who have had compassion and recognised the worth in everyone are the people who influenced me.
Those who do not deny anyone, you can tell who they are. You can tell in their eyes. It's almost as if they see right through you, and *Love* you anyway!
Well said! Maybe it is somewhat of a paradox that NOT trying to convert others is actually the most sucessful method..
Jesus was loving and inclusive, I take a little truth from each religion, and it is that which has stuck with me from christianity.. and I also always seek to live by the golden rule..
Is it strange that those who have influenced my spiritual path the most are the ones who also hurt me the most? For it was in forgiving them that my 'shell' was cracked open and I was able to let *love* in..
Apo:Christians are commisioned by Christ to preach the gospel to everyone. We don't know how the kingdom grows and we may not see a harvest because one plants, one waters one reaps. Jesus said that we must understand the parable of the sower without it we can't understand any of the parables.
If anyone wants eternal life get to know Jesus. He said he would rise from the dead and he did. His grave is empty.
Blah, blah, blah.. why haven't you answered the questions? Are they difficult to understand or something?
[Edited 4/12/2009 3:08:18 PM PST]
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| 4/12/2009 3:10:45 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
njesushandz
Ripley, MS
age: 33
| I can only speak for myself, but, I just believe God's word to be God's word and I believe it whole heartly and that being said, I am truly concerned for the people out there who don't believe... I don't believe pushing it on anyone will work cause not even the Holy Spirit does that and he has to be the one who draw's them... I believe in being nice and loving no matter how different an individual is , because it is not about me , It is about Jesus and If they can't see the transformation in my life why would they want what I have...I was instructed to preach the word in and out of season...meaning in favorable times and also not so, favorible....Some people look to a person as being judgmental and they say what gives you the authority , what makes you so, rightous that
you can teach other people ....
It is not about me..... nothing about Tammie is rightoues but, because he lived I can live with him..... meaning it is by his authority not mine.... our rightouesness is as filthy rag's to God.... but, it is by him we are sanctified by the blood of the Lamb...
Love in Jesus to all Tammie
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| 4/12/2009 3:21:22 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
skunkbreath
Saint James, MO
age: 90
| """Apparently the last thread I started on this was offensive? No one seemed to want to answer the questions I had posed.. and then it was suddenly deleted without explanation."""
I think we had focused in on why evangelists have a problem with crossing a line...That is why the thread was deleted.
When a thread is controlled by christo-thugs it stays up....When someone points out what a bunch of manipulative terrorists evangelists can be, dustin caves in to the pressure from them and deletes the thread. Don't want to speak the truth, just the acceptable superstitious line.
One tactic is to "SILENCE" the critics by what ever means is available...On the street they try to shout you down...Some of them will kill if they think they can get away with it...Torture was used very effectively...Here, if they can gather enough support from the cult, they flag and get a member or thread deleted...It takes some courage to stand up to this bunch of manipulative thugs dressed in religious robes. In their ignorance, they think that silencing someone is a victory...Pathetic creatures!...They should pray that the ideology that they profess to believe is not true, being the evil they are!
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| 4/12/2009 4:19:07 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Stats: Indeed... you can't kill the author of life and the very message of life. Have many as Christians become so scriptural, so doctrinal and studied that they forget that doctrine and scripture did not save them. Why did Jesus tell the religious leaders of the day that they did not have salvation by searching the scriptures? Because the religious leaders of the day did not believe that Jesus was who he said he was even though the evidence for who he was and where he came from were unquestionable. And it's not that showing due diligence when studying the scripture isn't called for... it is however that the Spirit of Faith bids us mend our nets before we try catching fish... preparing our soil before we try sowing seed...
When did you get so damned profound.. ? Nice : )
Of all the folks we've spoken with through the years... we are still here talking with one another... reading each others thoughts... hearing each others hearts... that to me I'm starting to see the influence we've had on how we each express how we believe what we believe. Isn't that amazing...? Let's all go to sassy shakti's and have baby shower.
It IS amazing and I am far from one who would deny the influence you ahve all had on me, it's an incredibly beautiful thing to me.. sometimes thinking about it brings tears of joy to these sappy eyes.. and I'd love to have ya'll over! Happy Easter/Ostara/Passover.. whatever you are celebrating : )
Rig: I think by being a model citizen in your community, someone who is known for being happy all the time, loving and caring, then you will indirectly influence others, or in a better position to directly influence others.
In other words, LIVE your beliefs to the best of your ability? If so, I agree. : )
Casheyes:I believe that often what another refers to as defending his/her faith can sometimes demonstrate one not pass ego---in other words, pride is what this one is defending instead.As for faith,if one's faith is strong---then others can't hurt that kind of faith--so therefore,it needs no defense.
Totally agree! I cannot for the life of me understand needing others to believe as I do.. and I have honestly tried to switch roles in order to think like this but I simply cannot. It's why I am asking the questions I am.. to get some kind of understanding..
Lovesgod:To not be a soldier of the Lord makes one open to be a slave of the world.
How so? Explain this to me..
Isn't presenting logical elements much more effective than letting those continue to exist in their imaginings?
The irony here is positively staggering!!!!!
Is the above how you would like others to approach you and your beliefs?
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| 4/12/2009 5:49:08 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| Oh Shakti, Great tactics in sizing up someone about their convictions.
Lovesgod: To not be a soldier of the Lord makes one open to be a slave of the world.
How so? Explain this to me..
Ever been bullied on the playground? Ever been looked down upon because you see things differently? How does that make you feel about yourself? We're grown people now, no more running home to mommy and daddy when people make fun of us. Part of having faith is trusting in what you believe, and when challenged having the knowledge and conviction to stand up for what you see as truth. What seems irrational to some may take up some rational tones when presented with passion and intelligence. There are times to keep an open mind, but to stand back while other's pelt your beliefs you either don't show character or maybe you have some questions about what you believe in, no convictions.
Isn't presenting logical elements much more effective than letting those continue to exist in their imaginings?
The irony here is positively staggering!!!!!
I see no irony. Does logic deal with one's imaginings? Isn't logic part of rationality? Theories don't contain much logic, apples and oranges, yet we treat them as truth, an ever changing truth. Faith demands more of logic, beliefs are based on truths. Time to defend your belief, what do you believe in and tell me logically why?
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| 4/12/2009 6:35:34 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| Lovesgod: Ever been bullied on the playground? Ever been looked down upon because you see things differently? How does that make you feel about yourself? We're grown people now, no more running home to mommy and daddy when people make fun of us. Part of having faith is trusting in what you believe, and when challenged having the knowledge and conviction to stand up for what you see as truth. What seems irrational to some may take up some rational tones when presented with passion and intelligence. There are times to keep an open mind, but to stand back while other's pelt your beliefs you either don't show character or maybe you have some questions about what you believe in, no convictions.
How is that an answer to ANYTHING that I have asked?
I am begining to see this as completely futile.
Yes, I have been looked down by for my beliefs, are you kidding me? Someone whose beliefs are part of the majority has the nerve to ask me that? It must seriously be time to get off the computer.
I see no irony. Does logic deal with one's imaginings? Isn't logic part of rationality? Theories don't contain much logic, apples and oranges, yet we treat them as truth, an ever changing truth. Faith demands more of logic, beliefs are based on truths. Time to defend your belief, what do you believe in and tell me logically why?
I see the irony.. many people accuse YOU of having no logic to your beliefs, that they only lie in empty imaginings.. exactly what you are presently accusing hindu's and others who don't share your beliefs of.. ironic.
I asked you if you would like others to try to force their beliefs on you, yet you have evaded that and many of the other questions I have asked throughout this thread. And now you want me to answer yours?
Comical.
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| 4/12/2009 6:44:38 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| You didn't answer my question, what do you believe in and give a logical reason why?
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| 4/12/2009 7:55:59 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
shakti
Red Deer, AB
age: 36
| njesushandz: I can only speak for myself, but, I just believe God's word to be God's word and I believe it whole heartly and that being said, I am truly concerned for the people out there who don't believe... I don't believe pushing it on anyone will work cause not even the Holy Spirit does that and he has to be the one who draw's them...
So to you it is the holy spirit's job and not yours? I can get behind that.. that you feel concerned because of what you believe but that you don't wish to overstep someone else's beliefs/free will... do I have that right?
I believe in being nice and loving no matter how different an individual is , because it is not about me , It is about Jesus and If they can't see the transformation in my life why would they want what I have...
What if the non-believer is nice and loving and have had transformation in their life as well, but that it doesn't come in the same packaging as yours?
I was instructed to preach the word in and out of season...meaning in favorable times and also not so, favorible....Some people look to a person as being judgmental and they say what gives you the authority , what makes you so, rightous that
you can teach other people ....
It is not about me..... nothing about Tammie is rightoues but, because he lived I can live with him..... meaning it is by his authority not mine.... our rightouesness is as filthy rag's to God.... but, it is by him we are sanctified by the blood of the Lamb...
Love in Jesus to all Tammie
So what if someone of another belief system attempts to preach their 'word' to you? Telling you that it isn't by their authority, but by ______.. you just need to come and see the truth.... ______ loves you..
In all honesty, how would you feel about that?
Skunk:I think we had focused in on why evangelists have a problem with crossing a line...That is why the thread was deleted.
Maybe it was my question as to which religion thus far in history has had the collective balls to stand up to the religion which claims its truth louder than all others.. ?
It was of course rhetorical, yet thought provoking all the same.. imo
I have definately noticed that it is the rare person who has actually answered the questions asked.. it's almost like they are written in another language or something.. it is beginning to concern me and I am not kidding. Like, is this a communication issue on my part? (have never been accused of having issues in that regard before) or a comprehension issue on the part of those who the question is directed at? Or is it mere evasion.. ? And if so, why? I am honestly confounded....
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| 4/12/2009 9:33:13 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
quezzie
Cincinnati, OH
age: 46
| shakti - very interesting set of questions. I've not been around much lately, not because of anything specific around here, but springtime brings much more "real life" activity - two softball leagues starting next week and a volleyball league starting a few weeks after that. Now, for your questions...
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
I agree with several others that the greatest influence happens when one's life bears out one's words. It's impossible to deliver a message of love within words of hate.
Do you draw a line on the methods used? Or is there a line in your mind? Is a person's salvation justification for any methods used?
I believe there IS a line that was clearly defined in the Bible, and I've mentioned it several times before. 1 Peter 3:15 says, "Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence..." To me, "make a defense" in this passage means something more along the lines of "have an explanation" because it is in the context of being called to "account for the hope that is in you," not defend against an attack or accusation. The line drawn is where we're told to account for our hope "with gentleness and reverence..." It's an important line and far too many people trample it in their enthusiasm to account for their hope. And yes, skunk, nobody likes a thug of any kind, and they come in all sizes, shapes, colors and denominations.
but what I am specifically getting at is the influence of those who feel that everyone should believe as they do..
There are several places where Jesus gives the mandate to go into all the world and share the good news of His saving grace through His death and resurrection. It is unfortunate that so many take just that bit and run with it, clubbing everybody who might resist or ask tough questions.
It's relatively easy to determine the difference between H2O and H2SO4 even though they will appear to be the same liquid when placed side by side in clear glasses. They even share some of the same elements. Drinking the first will sustain life; drinking the second will end it, no matter how much it looks like regular water. It isn't the sincerity or strength of my faith that makes the difference, but the substance upon which I place my faith. It won't matter how sincerely I believe that the sulfuric acid is plain water if I drink it. It doesn't matter how sincere is my faith if it's based on lies. How vigorously would anyone work to convince another of the truth of what's in the glass? Many feel that very same urgency about what's in their faith and that extends to the faith of others.
For me, it isn't that I want everyone else to believe as I do (that sounds like someone needing affirmation in numbers), but I want to know what the truth is, and when I find it, to share that truth with others who may also want to know. When I get it that they don't want to hear it, I don't badger. Faith is a personal choice every bit as much as beverage preference.
Very thought-provoking questions, shakti.   (coffee made from H2O) 
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| 4/12/2009 9:47:33 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
freezinoutside
Scotts, MI
age: 55
| What do I do to influence another person's faith? I usually start out by simply telling people that I was born of a virgin. If that doesn't work then I make sure they see me walk on water. If that doesn't work then I feed a whole bunch of folks from a little bread and fish or maybe heal some sick folks. Of course, as a last resort I tell the person that I have a pact with one of our powerful Gods and the only way to get to him is through me. If they don't fall for that and none of this works then I get myself crucified and rise from the dead like a Phoenix. It's as simple as that. 
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| 4/12/2009 10:15:01 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
aposorichie
Berwyn, IL
age: 53
| Fill up your bathtub and try then.
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| 4/13/2009 4:30:44 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
ourself
Hamilton, ON
age: 37
| Wow. Lots of good posts here.
Sass;
Obviously we all influence each other's belief system to some degree or another.. this is inevitable and imo beneficial.. but what I am specifically getting at is the influence of those who feel that everyone should believe as they do..
In a Way, this applies to me as well. I believe that absolutely everyone believes differently to some degree and I share your opinion that it's beneficial. Two heads (or even 5 billion) are better than one when it comes to figuring stuff out. And it's fun to share.
You get two people who read the same book and they both say "Yes... I believe that". Now ask each of them what every chapter in the book meant. You would likely be able to write two new books!
I believe We should be learning from each other and helping each other grow. We've been trying to keep others of Our kind down for so long. It's time to say screw the past and build for the future in the Now. If We all worked together, it would make for radical change and I'm willing to bet Our resource and over population problems will be a thing of legends.
I believe that "everybody believes differently but still wants to be happy" is as close a thing to a fact that We have. Compassion is not some emotional ideology. Compassion is basic logic for anybody with an ounce of common sense. And I believe everybody should believe the same, haha. In a Way I am joking and in a Way I am not.
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
By example I guess. Often times, I try and end up failing here. In trying to advocate Compassion, I sometimes use harsh words. This is usually in a position I'm taking against people that talk like Lovesgod;
Lovesgod;
Where in Hindu text are the testimonies of over 500 eyewitnesses to see the works of Krishna?
Why do you need eyewitnesses? I thought you had your faith! Now you need faith in the person who listed the 500 eyewitnesses. Even if the resurrection of Jesus happened, how would that negate anything Hindu?
This is prejudiced my friend. Do you know what the root of prejudice is? It's ok. Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. It means you have alot to learn and learning's fun!
Casheyes, Statueman, Raven (as well as yourself Sass)and a few others have already put forth sentiments I agree with and I'm in an odd mood so thought I'd go with something a little more geared to the target of the topic, lol.
DH... The free online phychiatrist, lol.
[Edited 4/13/2009 4:45:43 AM PST]
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| 4/13/2009 4:57:02 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
frotificare
Syracuse, NY
age: 52
| Wow. Lots of good posts here.
Sass;
Obviously we all influence each other's belief system to some degree or another.. this is inevitable and imo beneficial.. but what I am specifically getting at is the influence of those who feel that everyone should believe as they do..
In a Way, this applies to me as well. I believe that absolutely everyone believes differently to some degree and I share your opinion that it's beneficial. Two heads (or even 5 billion) are better than one when it comes to figuring stuff out. And it's fun to share.
You get two people who read the same book and they both say "Yes... I believe that". Now ask each of them what every chapter in the book meant. You would likely be able to write two new books!
I believe We should be learning from each other and helping each other grow. We've been trying to keep others of Our kind down for so long. It's time to say screw the past and build for the future in the Now. If We all worked together, it would make for radical change and I'm willing to bet Our resource and over population problems will be a thing of legends.
I believe that "everybody believes differently but still wants to be happy" is as close a thing to a fact that We have. Compassion is not some emotional ideology. Compassion is basic logic for anybody with an ounce of common sense. And I believe everybody should believe the same, haha. In a Way I am joking and in a Way I am not.
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
By example I guess. Often times, I try and end up failing here. In trying to advocate Compassion, I sometimes use harsh words. This is usually in a position I'm taking against people that talk like Lovesgod;
Brother Our, Wow! 
I really do not fit into any category of religious belief system. Yet, I acquaint my self daily within an Inter-Denominational Catholic Church, where I volunteer my time and services upwards of 40-60 hrs a week.
It is a unique church with a priest that consistently goes against the grain of the Diocese. In fact, he just denied renewing the Creed at Easter services  Said Jesus wouldn't live in this manner and ex-communicate anyone!
I lock myself in here because they have the resources available for me to do the most that I am able to for others in their lives. Many of the things I do has drawn so many others into fellow-shipping with this church community, especially from people from outside of the community. These are new supporters demanding change from the Diocese and Pope, from other Catholic churches at that!
Actions definitely are the example by which we influence others, in their faith and beliefs.
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| 4/13/2009 2:58:14 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
skunkbreath
Saint James, MO
age: 90
| frot-,""It is a unique church with a priest that consistently goes against the grain of the Diocese.""
Sounds good!!!..Am considering signing up...just one question, though...Does he still wear the dress?
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| 4/14/2009 6:44:12 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
statueman
Riverside, CA
age: 45
| quezzie,
"Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence..." To me, "make a defense" in this passage means something more along the lines of "have an explanation" because it is in the context of being called to "account for the hope that is in you," not defend against an attack or accusation. The line drawn is where we're told to account for our hope "with gentleness and reverence..." It's an important line and far too many people trample it in their enthusiasm to account for their hope.
Good stuff... turn the other cheek and take the board out of the eye kinda reasoning. For the most part I try not to comment on the posts of others who also claim to believe in Christ. But after having read your profile and your post I feel I see the plain forthrightness in it is patent influence of a practical faith. Would that there were more Christian Conservatives like yourself...
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| 4/14/2009 9:54:54 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
sharedmercy
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 54
| What do I do to influence another person's faith? I usually start out by simply telling people that I was born of a virgin. If that doesn't work then I make sure they see me walk on water. If that doesn't work then I feed a whole bunch of folks from a little bread and fish or maybe heal some sick folks. Of course, as a last resort I tell the person that I have a pact with one of our powerful Gods and the only way to get to him is through me. If they don't fall for that and none of this works then I get myself crucified and rise from the dead like a Phoenix. It's as simple as that.
Your posts have nothing to do with this thread and, they are getting to be very offensive
to Christians. Why do you have to do this?
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| 4/15/2009 6:11:31 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
scorpiomoon
Brattleboro, VT
age: 60
| Your posts have nothing to do with this thread and, they are getting to be very offensive
to Christians. Why do you have to do this?
I say:
He probably says it because he can...you know..freedom of speech...open forum..whatever. You say that it offends Christians for him to post things like this. Below is a quote you posted in a thread, not long ago...............
Sharedmercy said:
"Satan convinces some Believers through ministers of darkness and pagans, through their own dark hearts. Thus, they worship/celebrate in ways that are paganistic such as: easter, christmas, new years, nature, a variety of gods, etc.
Satan uses just enough truth to deceive them [because he was with God before he was cast out of His presence]. According to His word, God uses satan's evilness and turns it around for good to those that love Him."
I say:
I for one was offended by your opinion that Pagans have dark hearts, and maybe you might have offended others also, but I am not speaking for them, just myself. People that know me, could possibly assure you, that I don't have a dark heart.
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| 4/15/2009 7:53:13 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
sdcentaur
Sioux Falls, SD
age: 49
| I'm going to sidetrack a bit but there's a madness to my method.
I don't believe any overt methods of influencing another's faith is ethical or effective in the long run. That being said...
In the history of humans there have always been the "others". At one time the "others" were probably Neanderthals and over a few tens of thousands of years we finally managed to kill them off. Probably the first instance of Homo Sapiens causing the extinction of another species.
Soon enough the "others" were those from the next valley who insisted on saying "Ungh" instead of "Ugh". The fact that they had a better watering hole and more game had nothing to do with it of course, everyone knows that saying "Ungh" is evil so if we kill them or chase them off we are just ridding the Spirits that be of this evil presence. Oh, we get that nice watering hole for the season as a gift from the Spirits that be too...
Somewhere along the line our ancestors discovered how to cultivate wheat, rice or maize or any of several other crops and domesticated animals for food and burden. People tended to start settling in one place. Something new came about, wealth, things that had value beyond what could be eaten or used immediately or replaced quickly.
Now there were "haves" and "have nots". Those who settled and toiled on the lad "had" and those who retained their nomadic ways "had naught". Organized religons developed and the rest as they say, is history.
What it comes down to is there have always been the "others" and it seem inherent in human nature to want to beling to a "group" and to fear/hate anyone outside that group and to use that "difference" to demonize and dehumanize the "others" so that killing them and/or taking what is thiers by the "leaders" much easier to tolerate by the "followers". It all comes back to wealth and power.
It seems the thing the sheep and shepherds have the hardest time dealing with is not the pack of wolves but the lone centaur who walks his own path and minds his own business
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| 4/15/2009 12:29:20 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
mister_godot
Omaha, NE
age: 49
| Where in Hindu text are the testimonies of over 500 eyewitnesses to see the works of Krishna?
While your lack of knowledge regarding Hinduism is appalling, what is even more appalling is that you choose to continue to pontificate about a religion that you know nothing of. Why are there no accounts of 500 witnesses giving testimonial about Krishna? Because followers of Hinduism are not evangelicals and they do not proselytize. Vedic scriptures are written by enlightened beings to educate, not to bear witness.
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| 4/15/2009 12:47:48 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| While your lack of knowledge regarding Hinduism is appalling, what is even more appalling is that you choose to continue to pontificate about a religion that you know nothing of. Why are there no accounts of 500 witnesses giving testimonial about Krishna? Because followers of Hinduism are not evangelicals and they do not proselytize. Vedic scriptures are written by enlightened beings to educate, not to bear witness.
Well, I apology then, the Hindu faith make less sense to me than the Gospel makes to them. Christianity teaches that we are all sinners, that it is not Karma that rewards or punish us for our actions. Bad things happen to us because we do bad things, good things happen because we do good things, not Karma, just a fact of life.
With faith in Christ there is an ultimate reward, to exist in the presence of YhWh and everlasting life in His kingdom. What does "enlightenment" give you? Please explain it to me so I may understand. Does enlightenment keep you from eternal damnation? Is it not damnation to keep coming back to a world that is in decline, getting worse with each generation? Aren't there many souls out there who are disillutioned into thinking there is only evil in the world and there is only one way out?
Isn't it Hell to have to keep reliving a life in this world?
No wonder the Muslims started their own religion over 500 year after the appearence of Christ, based on biblical scripture. At least they found a different truth.
[Edited 4/15/2009 1:12:26 PM PST]
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| 4/15/2009 4:24:48 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
mister_godot
Omaha, NE
age: 49
| Christianity teaches that we are all sinners, that it is not Karma that rewards or punish us for our actions. Bad things happen to us because we do bad things, good things happen because we do good things, not Karma, just a fact of life.
So bad things do not happen to good people? What about babies who suffer terrible illnesses and then die?
What does "enlightenment" give you? Please explain it to me so I may understand. Does enlightenment keep you from eternal damnation?
The word/term "enlightenment" gets tossed around a little too freely. To generalize a bit (perhaps way too much), Hindus believe that enlightened beings escape the cycle of rebirth (Samsara) and that their soul/consciousness (Atman) joins (perhaps even merges - there are differing beliefs here) with Brahman/Universal-consciousness..
Is it not damnation to keep coming back to a world that is in decline, getting worse with each generation? Aren't there many souls out there who are disillutioned into thinking there is only evil in the world and there is only one way out? Isn't it Hell to have to keep reliving a life in this world?
Souls (Atmans) are reincarnated onto many different levels of existence, and even if they are reincarnated onto this plane of existence/reality... there are many other worlds upon which they may incarnate. Reincarnation is absolutely NOT tied to just this world.
No wonder the Muslims started their own religion over 500 year after the appearence of Christ, based on biblical scripture. At least they found a different truth.
Ironically that's more of a statement on the state of Christianity than it is Hinduism.
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| 4/15/2009 7:51:06 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
statueman
Riverside, CA
age: 45
| Ironically that's more of a statement on the state of Christianity than it is Hinduism.
I thought he was talking about Islam. Oh well... hey man what is with that name Godot? You got a web site god.com or some such?
Anywho... you know... i don't know there is a hell or there ain't... but one thing I know for sure is that hell isn't the place I want to go if it's there. I don't think anyone would have time to hate anyone else in hell... but I'm sure hell is about hate. I just always figured that hate was what satan had against God for even bothering to create him. For the record... I'm sure satan did not invent God. I mean after all... if there was ever a dichotomy good and evil are it!
So Godot
what is the statement that says more for Hinduism than Christianity again?
(sorry about the rabbit trail...)
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| 4/15/2009 8:21:18 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
mister_godot
Omaha, NE
age: 49
| hey man what is with that name Godot? You got a web site god.com or some such?
It's from the play "Waiting for Godot" by Samuel Beckett
So Godot what is the statement that says more for Hinduism than Christianity again?
Islam is an Abrahamic religion that sprang forth after Christianity was born. The poster made it sound as though Islam had something to do with Hinduism (as if they were disgruntled Hindus). It doesn't. If anything it would have more to do with Muslims not being satisfied with the branching off of Christianity from Judaism, and so the founding of Islam.
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| 4/15/2009 11:12:09 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lees224
Cohoes, NY
age: 52
| in the sand..
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| 4/16/2009 7:46:35 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
statueman
Riverside, CA
age: 45
| Islam is an Abrahamic religion that sprang forth after Christianity was born. The poster made it sound as though Islam had something to do with Hinduism (as if they were disgruntled Hindus). It doesn't. If anything it would have more to do with Muslims not being satisfied with the branching off of Christianity from Judaism, and so the founding of Islam.
I better watch out for you Godot... you got skills. Knowledge is a burden all it's own. So without me going back through your posts and since your profile is unnavigable may I ask, sir, (excuse the sir if you work for a living) what your faith or no faith is?
Or as the Kung Fu wanna be said, "Guide me Sense i." So you think Islam was created as an answer to Christianity?
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| 4/16/2009 10:59:12 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| So bad things do not happen to good people? What about babies who suffer terrible illnesses and then die?
According to scripture, all are born into sin and the wages of sin is death. One of YhWh's attributes of mercy is He allows us life. There is a purpose for our lives on the earth, it has been implied that that suffering is the Lord's megaphone into bring attention unto Himself, to make sure we are led to Him.
The word/term "enlightenment" gets tossed around a little too freely. To generalize a bit (perhaps way too much), Hindus believe that enlightened beings escape the cycle of rebirth (Samsara) and that their soul/consciousness (Atman) joins (perhaps even merges - there are differing beliefs here) with Brahman/Universal-consciousness
What more of life does one seek enlightenment of? We are born; we go through life experiencing happiness, sadness, love, hate, prosperity, loss, community, and isolation; then we die. To be reincarnated (reborn) multiple times is only pushing the reset button. The process is repeated. As far as seeking "universal-conciousness" isn't that something the human mind cannot comprehend? With mankind being on this earth for eons, isn't the present view is that humanity is on the path to self-destruction?
Souls (Atmans) are reincarnated onto many different levels of existence, and even if they are reincarnated onto this plane of existence/reality... there are many other worlds upon which they may incarnate. Reincarnation is absolutely NOT tied to just this world.
So this implies that there is the existance of a "Heaven" and a "Hell". That one can be born into a plane of "goodness" or a plane of "dispair". Or they can be reborn, like a "cosmic vcr" with the "replay always" button set to on, to relive their lives once again till somebody presses "edit".
Ironically that's more of a statement on the state of Christianity than it is Hinduism.
Maybe it is, but it is the stepping stone to real truth. Hinduism holds no foundations if one believes that our lives are not finite, that one's life MAY (I stress that because one has no guarantees) be different (better) in a future life. Sounds like a false promise based on the idea that there are multiple "chances".
Reminds me of the movie, "The Butterfly Effect".
[Edited 4/16/2009 11:20:12 AM PST]
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| 4/16/2009 11:51:59 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| One thing to keep in mind.
Blessings to all
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| 4/16/2009 11:59:47 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
sdcentaur
Sioux Falls, SD
age: 49
| This isn't aimed at any person in particular posting in this thread. It just illustrates my feelings about proselytizing in general.
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| 4/16/2009 1:03:12 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
gapeach7777
Ball Ground, GA
age: 37
| I never try to influence anyone. I like reading about other people's beliefs especially on here. Some people hate Christians like me anyway. I will pray for them though because I do strongly believe that the only way to salvation is through Christ. But I would never belittle anyone for what they believe. As I have stated before in here, no one knows for sure what happens after death. I put my faith in Christ.
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| 4/16/2009 6:38:32 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
ourself
Hamilton, ON
age: 37
| Lovesgod;
Maybe it is, but it is the stepping stone to real truth. Hinduism holds no foundations if one believes that our lives are not finite, that one's life MAY (I stress that because one has no guarantees) be different (better) in a future life. Sounds like a false promise based on the idea that there are multiple "chances".
I'm thinking you don't understand the thread. However you did just give an example of the ignorance We espouse when We don't know where to draw the line.
Good job.
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| 4/16/2009 8:03:01 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| Lovesgod;
Maybe it is, but it is the stepping stone to real truth. Hinduism holds no foundations if one believes that our lives are not finite, that one's life MAY (I stress that because one has no guarantees) be different (better) in a future life. Sounds like a false promise based on the idea that there are multiple "chances".
I'm thinking you don't understand the thread. However you did just give an example of the ignorance We espouse when We don't know where to draw the line.
Good job.
And where does one draw the line in sharing one's belief? Especially when confronted by a premise.
Op:
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
Maybe by defending one's faith by showing flaws in another, not judging but debating and offering a reply. Doesn't that show spiritual strength?
Between Islamic and Christian faith, which would show more grace in your opinion?
Between Hindu and Christian faith, which would require the least option for eternal bliss in your experience? Which sounds more authentic?
April 15th is the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic. When the funeral boats got there there were over 300 bodies floating in life jackets. People that didn't die from drowning, but froze to death in the water because the lifeboats that were partially filled didn't come back to save them. As Christians should we be like those in the lifeboats and not be concern with the salvation of others? Should we not make at least an effort in trying to pull someone out of the grips of death? If they chose not to believe then we had done only what we could. But wouldn't reason make one think twice about how they would spend the rest of their life? Wouldn't trying to lead someone to their salvation be an act of love?
[Edited 4/16/2009 8:15:47 PM PST]
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| 4/16/2009 8:38:56 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
sun_shine51
West Monroe, LA
age: 58
| shakti
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
I think in your question you say exactly what I've come to believe... key word is influence. Too many try to preach as if they have the authority that Christ had. As I'm fond of saying if they haven't walked on water or raised the dead lately then perhaps humble influence is better.
Now my real name is Peter and like the Apostle I have said to my Lord "If that is you then bid me walk on the water with you!" And much like Peter I've taken my eye's off Jesus distracted by the wind and the waves and began to sink only to need Jesus help to save me from my own doubts.
What's the best way to influence one another spiritually? I think by being exactly who we are and honest with each other so that the truth will be the most influential part of our relationships. After all... where is truth without honesty and how can we learn to be honest without seeking to know truth?
How can I reveal the secrets or your heart if I don't know my own... and honestly, who really knows even their own heart? I like what John said in one of his letters... God is greater than our hearts.
Chose influence over authority, mercy over judgment, honesty and love over pity and condescension.
I agree with you.
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| 4/17/2009 9:47:12 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
ourself
Hamilton, ON
age: 37
| Lovesgod;
And where does one draw the line in sharing one's belief? Especially when confronted by a premise.
But you were the first one to make a premise. And it was in the form of attack against anothers belief.
Wouldn't trying to lead someone to their salvation be an act of love?
Sure. But only if it doesn't come with some dire warning if it isn't to be believed. And if it doesn't set out to make fun of a different Way.
You share, debate.
But the first thing you did was attack anothers belief.
Is that also supposed to be an act of Love?
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| 4/17/2009 11:45:08 AM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
| OP;
Obviously we all influence each other's belief system to some degree or another.. this is inevitable and imo beneficial.. but what I am specifically getting at is the influence of those who feel that everyone should believe as they do..
For those of you who do feel this way, I am curious.. what are the methods you use to bring non-believers over to your faith? Do you draw a line on the methods used? Or is there a line in your mind? Is a person's salvation justification for any methods used?
And what do you think is the greatest way to influence another spiritually?
I am curious.. what are the methods you use to bring non-believers over to your faith?
Any method dictated by the Holy Spirit. Seeing myself as an apologetic, I try to present reasoning.
Do you draw a line on the methods used?
Yes
Or is there a line in your mind?
When the questions or presumptions stop, or when my efforts become futile.
Is a person's salvation justification for any methods used?
I would not be doing the will of the Lord if I didn't at least try to answer questions or present the one reason for believing in Christ's sacrifice is the only way to salvation.
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| 4/17/2009 12:30:22 PM | Influencing another's faith.. where to draw the line? | |
lovesgod57
Waukegan, IL
age: 52
|
Sure. But only if it doesn't come with some dire warning if it isn't to be believed. And if it doesn't set out to make fun of a different Way.
You share, debate.
But the first thing you did was attack anothers belief.
Is that also supposed to be an act of Love?
Present to me were I attacked, did I not present an arguement? Is that attacking?
How many times has the Christian faith been made fun of? Read some of Dawkins and Hitchens writings. Who does more attacking and poking fun?
[Edited 4/17/2009 12:31:00 PM PST]
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