Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine? 16

6/28/2009 6:14:04 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
i_am_bill Astatula, FL age: 50	Quote from bbw47reader: Actually, it's not nearly as simple as unhealthy choices. You clearly buy the straight party line - the most common, ignorant, highly popular line - on causes or reasons for obesity without questioning its validity. And that you will continue to do so I have no doubt. But here is some other info anyway: http://www.obesityscam.com/ http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/obesity/causes.htm http://www.slate.com/id/2145689/ http://www.nwhealth.edu/healthyU/keepLean/obesity2.html Most people think that it is clear cut. It is not. There are usually several factors contributing to any one individual's obesity. You picked the least straightforward issue. One for which the tidal wave of popular disgust and panic overwhelms actual published research. Smoking is much more clear cut. You cannot win a debate or influence those engaged in mob mentality. Clearly this thread is based on ridiculous notions and assumptions. It is either an attempt to push buttons or the perpetrator is seriously delusional. And unfortunately in the face of new health reforms these delusionsal ideas are coming out of the woodwork. I do not know what our country will do. Seriously. Bill
6/28/2009 6:24:58 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
rocklady Lenoir, NC age: 47	Seriously you have got to be kidding me. I remember back when you rarely saw fat free and sugar free listed on most food items. Healthy not quiet so many fat people then If you think back to the time you started seeing the government involved in how people's recommended diet should be all of a sudden we started seeing more and more fat people. Somebody is really making money on all these preservatives and fake sweetners at the health expense of the American people. I've always left that CRAP! alone and I get twice the fat and all the calories in my diet. I'm far from fat. Hot and know it and still get to eat what I want! so there Hell no I wont support the government forcing us to take care of the monster they encouraged from the very beginning!
6/28/2009 6:25:30 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from redaussie: You and your son obviously have good insurance,so does that mean everyone else shouldn't have those rights? You have the right to purchase whatever insurance you want. Perhaps you have an attractive girl friend (well, you're here, so I'm guessing no). Should she have to be made to have sex with ugly people? I have an average job, and average insurance. So much for we're all Americans,we're all equal. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." A right is an obligation upon another. The only obligation that makes sense is an obligation to not do something: not take from another, not initiate force against another, etc. This leads to "negative" rights, which can be easily met simply by not doing anything! But, you describe a "positive" right, where others are made to fund what you can not afford yourself. The only real "right" the U.S. guarantees is the right to "try". Many of us are grateful for that right. As far as you are concerned it's a case of stiff shit,i'm ok and I couldn't give a shit if anyone else isn't.It's that selfish attitude that gives a country this size close to 3rd world healthcare. The U.S. has first rate health care, by my observation. The best money can buy. If you don't like it, leave and find better elsewhere. But, this is getting off-topic. My observation was related to those who would be a greater burden upon others because they remain unfit, rather like welfare deadbeats as opposed to those suddenly unemployed. Explain to me in an unselfish realistic manner how 3 to 5% out of every taxpayers wage every week to fund a healthcare system for all is going to take more money out of your pocket. Because I earned that money, quite legally. It is mine. Earn your own. That's the bottom line. Now, I could be convinced to be charitable toward someone down on their luck, and often contribute toward raising funds for someone in my community who needs essential surgery and lacks insurance. But, ultimately it should be my choice, and my neighbors' to decide who is worthy. Some fat slob who weighs 400 lbs, eats hohos and burgers like they go out of style, ignores advise to exercise and lose weight, is not going to have my sympathy when they need to now get "free" insulin shots, and the eventual coronary bypass surgery at my expense. As long as their obesity affects only them, I have no right to criticize their lifestyle choice. But once health care is socialized, I will see every obese person as a drain on my wallet. Tell you what. Give me a dollar. One lousy, measly, dollar. Why not? It is such a small part of your wages, are you that selfish? Remember how the income tax started? A small percentage only on the rich? We know where that went. Yes your money is going to help cover all people,obese or not(which in itself is a ridiculous statement.)It's your mentality and selfishness that is what is slowly sinking this country. Hell no! It's self-sufficiency that made the U.S. the most powerful nation on earth in very short order... until all the freeloaders started up. It would be interesting to see if nationalized health insurance would be two-tier, or funded by premiums tied to one's overall fitness (because of correlation between fitness and health), propensity to smoke, etc. Personally, I don't think an individual's lifestyle is any of the government's business, but it would have to be if health care were nationalized to even have the smallest semblance of "fairness". Might go a long way toward fighting the American obesity epidemic.
6/28/2009 6:35:18 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
bbw47reader Frederick, MD age: 47	Quote from i_am_bill: You cannot win a debate or influence those engaged in mob mentality. Clearly this thread is based on ridiculous notions and assumptions. It is either an attempt to push buttons or the perpetrator is seriously delusional. And unfortunately in the face of new health reforms these delusionsal ideas are coming out of the woodwork. I do not know what our country will do. Seriously. Bill LOL. I know! And I know he's a paranoid delusional type. I don't usually bother with responding but I've been wanting to post those links for future copy and paste. Then it doesn't matter if I have the file on whatever computer I'm on. Works if thread isn't deleted, I'm not blocked, and I remember a keyword to search.
6/28/2009 6:38:30 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
librajason Gateway, AR age: 34	Obesity can be a genetic factor........it's not those peoples fault. Just like it's not my fault I might have inherited Lupus.....the people didnt ask to have the diseases they have. So the Government should quit treatin' em' like they did.
6/28/2009 6:43:15 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
noredneckhere Knoxville, TN age: 49	America, the only country where welfare leads to obesity.
6/28/2009 6:43:26 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from librajason: Obesity can be a genetic factor........it's not those peoples fault. Funny thing: eating less and exercising more makes one lose weight. Yes, some people might have slow metabolisms, or an inherited sweet tooth. Nothing will power can't overcome. The biggest problem with socialized health care is that many will not give a damn about trying to stay healthy because it won't cost them when they get sick. I saw health care nationalized in Canada, throughout the Trudeau '70s. It didn't start with him, but he sure finished the job. Here were the effects: 1. People would see the doctor for anything. There were no copays. 2. Governments started rationing: so many surgeries of each type per Dr. per year. 3. Doctors were paid by the procedure -- there was no option for the best doctor to charge a premium. 4. Doctors either had to be in the government system or out of it. And, anyone eligible for the government system (citizen, immigrant) HAD to use it. So, 95% of the doctors had to give up private practice for public practice. 5. House calls were made illegal, even for infirm patients. 6. Waiting lists for procedures became outrageous: 6 months for a mammogram to check for breast cancer, 25% of newly diagnosed cardiac patients dying before seeing a specialist. 7. The best doctors would leave for the U.S., where they could be paid based on how good they were and not on how many operations they performed. 8. The government went into incredible debt. Taxes soared. It didn't happen overnight. At first, it was pretty good, actually! But, it was unsustainable. Our family went from Dad working at an average job, making enough for all of us, to taxes going so high to pay for social benefits, that Mom had to start working again. Where we had private health care before, and our coverage let a doctor make a house call, we were instead given appointments 6 months in advance for a 15 minute checkup. If there's a carrot, there ought to be a stick. At the very least, premiums should be tied to overall health within one's control (smoking, drinking, weight, etc.) What will happen eventually is this: taxes will go up, and instead of the uninsured getting no care, everyone will wait on long lines, and care will be rationed. Mark my words. I lived it, and left for the U.S. because of it. [Edited 6/28/2009 6:53:39 PM PST]
6/28/2009 6:44:02 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from noredneckhere: America, the only country where welfare leads to obesity. I think someone put it this way: "America: the only country with fat poor people."
6/28/2009 6:50:58 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
librajason Gateway, AR age: 34	Quote from oldeschoolcharm: Funny thing: eating less and exercising more makes one lose weight. Yes, some people might have slow metabolisms, or an inherited sweet tooth. Nothing will power can't overcome. The biggest problem with socialized health care is that many will not give a damn about trying to stay healthy because it won't cost them when they get sick. If there's a carrot, there ought to be a stick. At the very least, premiums should be tied to overall health within one's control (smoking, drinking, weight, etc.) I've met quite a few people who: A: Work their asses off B: Get plenty of exercise C: They eat what a dietician tells em to eat.......... ......and they're still over weight......some peoples metabolisms aint wired to burn every damn thing it touches A sweet tooth has about nothin' to do with genetic factors concerening weight.
6/28/2009 6:53:56 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
redaussie Henderson, NV age: 44	Oldeschool,your way of thinking is exactly that,old school.That is why the country is in such a financial mess.Long gone are the days of America being a financial powerhouse in the world as you say.
6/28/2009 6:57:00 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
alicekathleen Sacramento, CA age: 64	Well, if we exclude those with problems, we would be excluding most.... hypertension (me), cancer, heart disease, old injuries, arthritis (me), etc etc.. To combat obesity, we need to "down size" servings at cafes, etc. And that would take a great deal of co operation and compassion. PS The President only signs bills, Congress passes them, so your post might better be phrased as "IF and WHEN Congress finally passes a bill for healthcare",,, [Edited 6/28/2009 7:03:18 PM PST]
6/28/2009 6:57:28 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from librajason:"I've met quite a few people who: A: Work their asses off B: Get plenty of exercise C: They eat what a dietician tells em to eat.......... ......and they're still over weight......some peoples metabolisms aint wired to burn every damn thing it touches A sweet tooth has about nothin' to do with genetic factors concerening weight." Have you seen how FAT some dieticians are? Such people need to spend $100 and see a personal trainer once and a doctor to put together a diet and exercise regime. You can't break the laws of thermodynamics.
6/28/2009 6:57:52 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
rocklady Lenoir, NC age: 47	Quote from librajason: I've met quite a few people who: A: Work their asses off B: Get plenty of exercise C: They eat what a dietician tells em to eat.......... ......and they're still over weight......some peoples metabolisms aint wired to burn every damn thing it touches A sweet tooth has about nothin' to do with genetic factors concerening weight. These artificial sweetners on the market actually slow the metabolisum down so much that you have to eat next to nothing to even loose weight. Ever see a skinny person who doesn't work out drinking diet drinks? Go figure
6/28/2009 7:04:42 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
librajason Gateway, AR age: 34	Quote from rocklady: Ever see a skinny person who doesn't work out drinking diet drinks? I hardly work out & those diet drinks taste like dog food.....I've had trouble gainin' weight all my life.
6/28/2009 7:05:09 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from redaussie:"Oldeschool,your way of thinking is exactly that,old school.That is why the country is in such a financial mess.Long gone are the days of America being a financial powerhouse in the world as you say." And your proof is? The U.S. is in a mess because liberals steal and spend money they don't have, and conservatives aren't. How do I know that "old school" works? I've seen it work My parents were "bloody DP" WWII refugees who started over in Canada with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Dad worked on a farm, and Mom worked as a maid. There certainly was no socialized medicine or handouts for them. But, they saved a bit here and there, got better jobs over time, managed to save enough to buy a small home in the countryside. They waited seven years after marriage before I was born, and Mom could stop working. They didn't need "help", or "handouts". What they needed, and had, was an economy that was not burdened by excessive taxation. Then the '70s came, and Trudeau, who turned to the likes of them and said, "You 'rich' have to help the less fortunate." Taxes went up, Mom had to work again, and doctor's house calls became illegal. Who the fk helped them?** No one. And they "made it". Let the poor work. Scale back government, cut taxes, and see this country prosper again. Old School works. You can't make wealth out of a promise. [Edited 6/28/2009 7:06:05 PM PST]
6/28/2009 7:07:59 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from rocklady:"These artificial sweetners on the market actually slow the metabolisum down so much that you have to eat next to nothing to even loose weight. Ever see a skinny person who doesn't work out drinking diet drinks? Go figure" And, there's something wrong with drinking water? Look, I like a Diet Mt. Dew, or Diet Coke too, from time to time, (or a beer, for that matter), but I wouldn't live on the stuff.
6/28/2009 7:13:05 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
redaussie Henderson, NV age: 44	Quote from oldeschoolcharm: Quote from redaussie:"Oldeschool,your way of thinking is exactly that,old school.That is why the country is in such a financial mess.Long gone are the days of America being a financial powerhouse in the world as you say." And your proof is? The U.S. is in a mess because liberals steal and spend money they don't have, and conservatives aren't. How do I know that "old school" works? I've seen it work My parents were "bloody DP" WWII refugees who started over in Canada with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Dad worked on a farm, and Mom worked as a maid. There certainly was no socialized medicine or handouts for them. But, they saved a bit here and there, got better jobs over time, managed to save enough to buy a small home in the countryside. They waited seven years after marriage before I was born, and Mom could stop working. They didn't need "help", or "handouts". What they needed, and had, was an economy that was not burdened by excessive taxation. Then the '70s came, and Trudeau, who turned to the likes of them and said, "You 'rich' have to help the less fortunate." Taxes went up, Mom had to work again, and doctor's house calls became illegal. Who the fk helped them?** No one. And they "made it". Let the poor work. Scale back government, cut taxes, and see this country prosper again. Old School works. You can't make wealth out of a promise. Let the poor work,for what,a measly minimum wage that you expect them to support a family and all the costs involved.Considering most products in America are made in China Mexico and Canada a lot of jobs just aren't out there anymore for the"poor". Why shouldn't the rich be taxed at a higher rate,will it hurt someone who makes a million dollars a year pay just that little extra.Not at all. Cutting taxes won't make this country prosper if there's no jobs,you're just digging a deeper hole. It's all about reform and changes,narrow minded people like you are the ones who should leave like you suggest as things will never improve with your narrow minded train of thought.
6/28/2009 7:15:56 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
1life2dream Scottsdale, AZ age: 48	Quote from librajason: I hardly work out & those diet drinks taste like dog food.....I've had trouble gainin' weight all my life. LJ, why are you eating dog food guy? Maybe that's why you can't gain weight, you don't like Dog Food and because of that you eat small portions. I eat healthy but NOT diet stuff, just healthy foods. Cheers!
6/28/2009 7:16:21 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
rocklady Lenoir, NC age: 47	the only time I would drink a diet drink ever would be purely by accident or extreme thirst Diet drinks are made to trick fat people out of their money
6/28/2009 7:21:19 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from redaussie:"]Let the poor work,for what,a measly minimum wage that you expect them to support a family and all the costs involved." Why the hell not? My parents did. Heck, there wasn't a minimum wage then! I hear they're thinking of raising it again in WA. The manager of a local Denny's told me he'd have to let one waitress go if it happened. When the revolution comes, there will be two kinds of casualties: those that thought money should buy law, and those who's votes they bought to do so. But, again, let's do it your way. I will join the ranks of those who want a handout and demand you feed, clothe, house, and care for me too. It's not sustainable. [Edited 6/28/2009 7:21:39 PM PST]
6/28/2009 7:21:38 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
librajason Gateway, AR age: 34	Quote from 1life2dream: LJ, why are you eating dog food guy? Maybe that's why you can't gain weight, you don't like Dog Food and because of that you eat small portions. I eat healthy but NOT diet stuff, just healthy foods. Cheers! Actually I eat whatever I want too.....and I dont gain a F**KIN' pound......and that aint always a good thing, either. [Edited 6/28/2009 7:24:48 PM PST]
6/28/2009 7:46:11 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
redaussie Henderson, NV age: 44	Quote from oldeschoolcharm: Quote from redaussie:"]Let the poor work,for what,a measly minimum wage that you expect them to support a family and all the costs involved." Why the hell not? My parents did. Heck, there wasn't a minimum wage then! ANOTHER RIDICULOUS ANSWER.THE OLD DAYS ARE EXACTLY THAT,THE OLD DAYS,THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN THEN AND NOW. I hear they're thinking of raising it again in WA. The manager of a local Denny's told me he'd have to let one waitress go if it happened. MAYBE IF MOST OF THEIR PRODUCTS WERE MADE IN AMERICA BY AMERICANS THUS CREATING MORE JOBS AND LOWERING THE COSTS OF THOSE THINGS HE WOULDN'T HAVE TO LAY ANYONE OFF. When the revolution comes, there will be two kinds of casualties: those that thought money should buy law, and those who's votes they bought to do so. WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES,LOL,THAT A FORWARD THINKER LIKE YOURSELF THINKS AMERICA NEEDS A REVOLUTION IS LAUGHABLE.IT NEEDS CHANGE,NOT THE SORT OF NARROW MINDED THOUGHT PROCESSES OF ONE LIKE YOU.OBAMA SWEPT IN BECAUSE PEOPLE REALIZE A DRASTIC CHANGE IS NEEDED.THE DINOSAURS LIKE YOU GOT SWEPT AWAY WITH McCAIN. But, again, let's do it your way. I will join the ranks of those who want a handout and demand you feed, clothe, house, and care for me too. It's not sustainable. AGAIN,DO IT MY WAY AND MORE PEOPLE WILL BE BETTER OFF.I HOPE YOU DON'T GET LAYED OFF OR GET FIRED FROM YOUR JOB BECAUSE IT WOULD BE CRIMINAL TO SEE SUCH A SELFLESS PERSON LIKE YOURSELF HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REALITIES A LOT IN YOUR POSTION CAN'T.
6/28/2009 8:21:53 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Yes, times were different. We didn't have liberals stealing money from those who earned it. And there was plenty of work: heck, even the middle class could afford some domestic help. Established immigrants would employ new ones "just off the boat" so they could get a foothold. It wasn't impressive work, but it was honorable. Two-income families, kids raised in daycare, skyrocketing taxes and government debt, waiting lists for doctors. There's your liberal dream. Shit, when I spent a year in Ontario, and supported my family on my income, we were vilified for "denying daycare workers jobs" because my then-wife stayed at home raising our kids. You know, if you're so generous, quit your job. I'm sure someone, somewhere, is unemployed, and could fill your place. Maybe you could share your job with someone. No? Who's the selfish bastard now? Crap, I paid over $20k in income taxes last year, over $10k in alimony to an ex that refuses to work, on top of raising my kids, and you want more of my money? After seeing what liberals do, I will only be happy when I see the last communist wanna-be dead. Thieves, nothing but thieves. Can't get anyone to voluntarily help them, so they want to take by force. I wouldn't be in the U.S. if liberals hadn't f**ked up my country, and I certainly will do my best to prevent them from messing up this one.
6/28/2009 8:23:58 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
satinsky2 Charlotte, NC age: 60	yes.
6/28/2009 8:57:05 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
redaussie Henderson, NV age: 44	Quote from oldeschoolcharm: Yes, times were different. We didn't have liberals stealing money from those who earned it. BULLSHIT,SINCE THE VERY FIRST INCEPTION OF MONEY IN SOCIETY IT HAS BEEN TAKEN BY THE POWERS THAT BE,LIBERALS INCLUDED.TO SAY IT ISN'T SO IS DILLUSIONAL. And there was plenty of work: heck, even the middle class could afford some domestic help. Established immigrants would employ new ones "just off the boat" so they could get a foothold. WELL MAYBE THERE WAS PLENTY OF WORK BACK THEN BUT UNFORTUNATELY TIMES HAVE CHANGED.I GUESS IF YOU LIVE IN THE PAST SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE. Two-income families, kids raised in daycare, skyrocketing taxes and government debt, waiting lists for doctors. There's your liberal dream. AGAIN,THE ONLY WAY MOST NOWADAYS CAN AFFORD TO GET BY IS BY HAVING BOTH PARENTS WORKING.ASK THEM IF THEY WOULD LIKE ONE PARENT AT HOME FOR WHEN THE KIDS COME HOME.I'M SURE THEY WOULD LIKE TO.SKYROCKETING TAXES,UMMMM,WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE KIDDING WITH ANOTHER RIDICULOUS STATEMENT LIKE THAT.THE TAXES SIMPLY AREN'T BEING SPREAD OUT TO WHERE THEY ARE REALLY NEEDED.SHOW ME YOUR PROOF OF TAXES SKYROCKETING.YOU CAN'T EVEN ANSWER ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.GOVERNMENT DEBT IS NOT THE FAULT OF THE PEOPLE,IT'S THE FAULT OF THOSE ELECTED TO REPRESENT THEM.WHERE IS THIS WAITING LIST FOR DOCTORS YOU SPEAK ABOUT.MOST AMERICANS CAN'T AFFORD TO GO SEE A DOCTOR THANKS TO PEOPLE WITH YOUR PRIMITIVE WAY OF THINKING. Shit, when I spent a year in Ontario, and supported my family on my income, we were vilified for "denying daycare workers jobs" because my then-wife stayed at home raising our kids. YOU WERE VILIFIED WERE YOU,WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.DID ALL THE LOCAL DAYCARE WORKERS HAVE A PICKET LINE AND CAMPOUT ON YOUR FRONT DOOR VILLIFIENG YOU.ANOTHER RIDICULOUS STATEMENT. You know, if you're so generous, quit your job. I'm sure someone, somewhere, is unemployed, and could fill your place. Maybe you could share your job with someone. No? Who's the selfish bastard now? YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT,THERE IS SOMEONE WHO COULD TAKE MY JOB JUST LIKE THERE IS SOMEONE WHO COULD TAKE YOURS.WHO'S THE SELFISH BASTARD,WHY IT'S YOU.YOU FEEL THAT THOSE LESS FORTUNATE THAN YOU DON'T DESERVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS YOU. Crap, I paid over $20k in income taxes last year, over $10k in alimony to an ex that refuses to work, on top of raising my kids, and you want more of my money? I PAID A LOT OF TAX LAST YEAR,UNFORTUNATELY IT DIDN'T ALL GO TO PLACES WHERE IT COULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.IF YOU HAVE TO PAY 10K IN ALIMONY THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM AND YOURS ALONE,SUCK IT UP BUDDY.RAISING YOUR KIDS SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE ON DEBATE HERE,THAT AGAIN IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY After seeing what liberals do, I will only be happy when I see the last communist wanna-be dead. Thieves, nothing but thieves. Can't get anyone to voluntarily help them, so they want to take by force. MORE GIBBERISH. I wouldn't be in the U.S. if liberals hadn't f**ked up my country, and I certainly will do my best to prevent them from messing up this one. WHAT A LOT OF SHIT,YOU'RE RHETORICAL GARBAGE AND THOUGHT PROCESSES WILL NEVER DO AMERICA ANY HELP.YOU LIVE IN THE PAST AND HAVE NO LOGIC TO WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT. AGAIN,ANSWER THESE TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS---EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHERE EVERY CENT OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS GO AND IF THEY WERE REVAMPED(NOT LOWERED OR RAISED) AND 3 TO 5% OF THEM WERE REDIRECTED TO COVER A HEALTHCARE SYSTEM FOR ALL EXPLAIN HOW THIS WILL COST YOU MORE MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET. YOU HAVE AVOIDED THIS QUESTION EVERYTIME I HAVE ASKED.
6/28/2009 9:01:51 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	I have blocked redaussie as his ALL CAPS rants were getting annoying. I would have preferred that anything he wrote until this point remained, in fairness, but the system does not work that way.
6/28/2009 10:25:18 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
craftygirl002 Tacoma, WA age: 41	Kind of a slippery slope, dontcha think? You have no way of knowing why the person is overweight. For all you know, they could have a thyroid or metabolic disorder. They could even be struggling with some other medical condition that caused them to gain weight. All you see is their weight, so you're willing to choose to resent them. Maybe if/when there is a national medical system, you could take advantage of some counseling services. Perhaps a good counselor could help you figure out why you're so willing to discriminate against people because there's really no room in this country for discrimination.
6/28/2009 10:38:00 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
second5 Ventura, CA age: 89	Obama plans to exterminate 100% of the Useless Eaters, so no need for health care for FAT FOLKS...
6/29/2009 2:00:33 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
sammael Fountain, CO age: 34	OUCH ! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU THAT IGNORANT . HAVE YOU EVEN BOTHERED TO CHECK THE FACTS YOU SPOUTING ? HAVE TAKEN A LOOK AT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ? TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA , MY MOTHER WORKED FOR CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES AND MADE "GOOD" MONEY , SHE HAD COMPANY INSURANCE . SHE HAD $75 CO-PAYS TO SEE HER FAMILY M.D. WHO CHARGED $40 . $1750 CO-PAYS FOR SURGERIES . AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST INSURANCE COMPANIES . AS FOR YOUR INANE ASSUMPTION THAT ALL THAT OBESE PEOPLE NEED TO DO TO LOSE WEIGHT IS TO EAT HEALTHY AND EXORCISE TO LOSE THE WEIGHT . GO TALK TO A REAL DOCTOR . NOT ALL OBESE PEOPLE ARE OBESE BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE . WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE PARALISED(?) AND CANT GO OUT JOG 5 MILES ? OR THOSE WHO'S METABOLISM IS SO SLOW IT MAKES A SNAIL LOOK LIKE A THUNDERBOLT ? OR THOSE WHO BODY CHEMOSTRY SIMPLY WON'T PROCESS FOOD THE CORRECT WAY ? THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE OUT OF CONTROL OF THE INDAVIDUAL . BACK TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES . IF THEY DIDN'T DISCRIMANATE AGAINST WHOEVER THEY CHOOSE TO , MANY WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE INSURANCE . AND IF INSURANCE WAS SO EXPENSIVE FOR BASIC CARE , MANY WOULD HAVE IT . IF THE COMPANIES DIDNT TELL YOU THE A HEART BY-PASS WAS CONCIDERED AN ELECTIVE SURGERY(yes I know that's an extreme example , but apt .) , MORE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE INSURANCE . IF SOCIETY(as a whole) DID NOT ACCEPT THE MAC DONALDS ON EVERY STREET CORNER(yes , you are to blame for that too .) , THERE WOULDN'T BE AS MANY OBESE PEOPLE . AND YES I'M POSTING IN ALL CAPS TOO . YA GONNA BLOCK ME ALSO ? P.S. JUST A GUESS , BUT I'M GUESSING THAT YOUR EX THAT YOUR PAYING $10,000 A YEAR TO(damn , the judge shoved a corncob up your a on that one ) , IS OVERWIEGHT . AND IF THE I.R.S. IS TAKING $30,000 FROM YOU , YOU OBVIOUSLY OWE THEM . OR YOU ARE MAKING A HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN THE $275,000 YOU CLAIM ON YOUR PROFILE . P.S.S. IM CALLING TROLL AND FAKE**
6/29/2009 4:22:20 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
googlefreak Etobicoke, ON age: 40	Part of the reason why people gain weight is diet sugars and MSG. MSG is worse than transfat! How? MSG is a chemical that excites your brain. It is how it fools your brain to make it the food you are eating tastes better. MSG is known to contribute to brain cancer if not the cause. So if the food taste heck a lot better than eating natural food you will of course want to eat more. Also people who state in doors a lot tend to eat more. Why? Because many watch too much tv. It is known people who watch tv tend to snack more. Watch a food commercial and you're hungry. You do not have to exercise to lose weight you simply need to eat until you are full. Most people eat beyond that. Yes medication can cause weight gain but for the rest of them they need to fix their health issue. Some foods can influence your metabolism. Soy is a food that can decrease your metabolism. Soy is a popular ingredient in foods since it is very cheap. If people avoided food additives, limited soy consumption and got some physical activity outdoors they would lose weight.
6/29/2009 6:13:19 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from craftygirl002: Kind of a slippery slope, dontcha think? You have no way of knowing why the person is overweight. For all you know, they could have a thyroid or metabolic disorder. They could even be struggling with some other medical condition that caused them to gain weight. All you see is their weight, so you're willing to choose to resent them. Maybe if/when there is a national medical system, you could take advantage of some counseling services. Perhaps a good counselor could help you figure out why you're so willing to discriminate against people because there's really no room in this country for discrimination. You are missing my point. Today, obese people cost me nothing. With nationalized health care, they will cost me plenty. I think it's perfectly sane to discriminate against people who steal from me. Put it another way? Do you support abortion as a means of birth control? Perhaps you do, and perhaps you don't. It's a contentious subject. But, today, at least, you do not have to pay for anyone's abortion except your own, should you chose one. The choice remains with you. With nationalized health care, you will be forced to pay for other people's abortions, whether you think it's moral or not.
6/29/2009 6:16:51 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
lolsmile Everett, WA age: 47	oldschool "I came to realize that under a nationalized health care system, I'd come to despise those that were unhealthy of their own doing, actively starting to hate fat people, rather than simply find them unattractive (and keep that opinon to my self), because they would cost me money." We ALREADY pay for them in numerous ways, and I have been sick of it and disgusted by them for as long as I can remember. Don't even want to have anything to do with them. All they are is a drain, and a sniveling, hypocritical, irrational, lying one at that. Will never understand how they can even live with themselves, much less expect anyone else to. "Perhaps a good counselor could help you figure out why you're so willing to discriminate against people because there's really no room in this country for discrimination." Who the hell popped off with that moronic piece of crap??? A big old fatty hog or what? Seriously sick and tired of them thinking it is discrimination when it is legitimate disgust and disrespect for those who HAVE IT COMING. Bunch of lying, freeloading, sniveling, blubber butts, with no self control or common decency. ONLY think about themselves and no one else, but expect the whole world to not only bend over backwards to accommodate, but jump out of the way whenever they come barreling down on you, like the self absorbed bullies they are, if you dare to be in the same aisle when they are on the way to those donuts. Yeah, I think the obese are seriously dysfunctional, and completely undesirable, and ALWAYS HAVE. Worst thing about being pregnant was feeling like I would blend in with such a lowly group, even if it was just temporary. [Edited 6/29/2009 6:30:27 AM PST]
6/29/2009 6:17:37 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Perhaps a good counselor could help you figure out why you're so willing to discriminate against people because there's really no room in this country for discrimination. No room for discrimination? O.K. I'll break into your home and take some of your stuff. "No room for discrimination" against thieves? Think again. There is plenty of room for discrimination against thieves, liars, murderers, etc. Today, a fat person is merely fat, and other than personal attractiveness, no, there is no need to discriminate against someone who harms only themselves. But, tomorrow, if I have to pay for their health care needs, there's a perfect justification to discriminate against the unfit, because they will cost me money.
6/29/2009 6:33:54 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Since the question regards supporting the health care costs of the unfit IF health care is nationalized, present disparaging remarks regarding the obese are not called for, and anyone who continues to make them will be blocked.
6/29/2009 6:42:41 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
passionsastirin Pompano Beach, FL age: 42	Quote from redaussie: What planet do you live on,your statements are ridiculous. What about pilots,motorcycle riders,smokers,kids crossing roads,etc etc and so forth,many people have high risk jobs or lead high risk lifestyles.You have singled out one sort of person because you obviously have a thing against fat people. You haven't made one good argument against a healthcare system that favors everyone except for your dislike of obese people. I totally agree. Perfect answer.
6/29/2009 6:50:00 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
mmilesg Lima, OH age: 32	OP, I dunno. I share your views on the matter and you bring up some very valid points. With that said, I'm off to go do my daily exercises and 9 mile ride.
6/29/2009 7:10:29 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from passionsastirin: I totally agree. Perfect answer. Except I don't have to pay for the risks associated with other people's hobbies or professions. And, their existing private insurance premiums are generally higher because of the risks. Would that be the case with nationalized health care? Would premiums be based on occupation, hobbies, health? They'd have to be to be fair, and yet, we do want the state out of our private lives, don't we? As for a good example: Canada. I had first hand experience with the high taxes and horrible health care (mostly waiting lists and common procedures not performed, like cellulitis surgery) there. Research it yourself. Right now, fat people are just that, fat. They don't cost me anything. With nationalized health care, they will, and discriminating against them will be legitimate.
6/29/2009 7:54:57 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
wolfi Albuquerque, NM age: 44	We're already paying for the obese - as well as people with a variety of other lifestyle issues and the resulting health problems. No 'socialization' necessary. In practical, everyday reality, the only thing 'socialized' healthcare would change is make the lines at doctor's offices and hospitals longer because everyone would be going to the doctor for every little shit every day, like they do in Europe.
6/29/2009 8:20:12 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
foxy_woman_49 Omaha, NE age: 51	My 2 cents- anyone that cant afford insurance and needs medical attention..should be able to do so without a price tag set to it Seeing a doctor or dentist etc.. when need be shouldnt be a matter of the friggin money!! ALL PEOPLE should be provided with medical care..Period If someone loses their job which then doesnt have insurance who cant afford to buy insurance should be able to see a doctor! Here to see a dr you need 200.00-250.00 if no insurance UPFRONT that not even counting a prescription...which we all know how high that is thats BS and just wrong! [Edited 6/29/2009 8:21:45 AM PST]
6/29/2009 8:35:06 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
snowbird02s Siena Italy age: 45	I'm with foxy.. It a shame that some people have to worry about there Health, meds, or pay the rent !!! ALL PEOPLE should be provided with medical care..Period
6/29/2009 8:49:20 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
wonderwoman79 Washington, GA age: 30	Yes I agree with that. I mean we are certainly in a time where we have our have and have nots of the world but a persons health should not be a matter of paper work or society. My nephew has twelve heart deffects and he had surdgery to correct them at fourteen months old which costed over a hundred thousand dollars but he is on medicaid so he was ok and all lengths taken to save his life. Another family had a little girl with two hard working parents that lived from pay check to pay check but they had insurance. However when the money ran out no exstremes were taken to save her life because the funding wasnt available and one room away from my nephews I heard the parents grieve as she was taken off all the machines and died. One child lived, another child died, how can a group of obese politicians make the choice of who lives or dies or whos life should matter most?
6/29/2009 9:19:36 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
second5 Ventura, CA age: 89	F**k'n Fat Folk's is fine, till your friends find out...
6/29/2009 9:21:41 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
beachingirl Stone Harbor, NJ age: 51	Everyone needs health insurance. Period. BTW, OP. We get it that you hate fat people and are pissed off with the amount of alimony you pay. Deal with it and move on. Apparently, you won't even be a citizen for another two years - if you don't like it here, move back to wherever you came from. Or did you piss off the fat people there and they are after you?
6/29/2009 9:35:21 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
alicekathleen Sacramento, CA age: 64	I don't really care if you call health care socialist, fascist, Australian, or any other word. We need it, big time. If you don't want it for yourself and your family, refuse to use it. Me, I need it for my later years, have zero healthcare at present.
6/29/2009 10:37:39 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
passionsastirin Pompano Beach, FL age: 42	Quote from beachingirl: Everyone needs health insurance. Period. BTW, OP. We get it that you hate fat people and are pissed off with the amount of alimony you pay. Deal with it and move on. Apparently, you won't even be a citizen for another two years - if you don't like it here, move back to wherever you came from. Or did you piss off the fat people there and they are after you? Excellent post! Kuddos to you.
6/29/2009 11:07:03 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
groovymimi Roanoke, TX age: 55	Quote from oldeschoolcharm: You are missing my point. Your point is moot. Today, obese people cost me nothing. Oh REALLY?! What about the hundreds of thousands of people on welfare that are obese? I'm assuming your tax dollars DON'T pay for them? With nationalized health care, they will cost me plenty. We're the ONLY country that doesn't have nationalized health care Put it another way? Do you support abortion as a means of birth control? Is there ANYONE who supports abortion as a means of birth control besides stupid @$$ed kids that don't have any morals?
6/29/2009 11:56:47 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
alicekathleen Sacramento, CA age: 64	I have not followed all the obesity attacks, but the poster is missing the point that we, 90 per cent of those of us over 21, have some need for healthcare. You might be fit, take no meds, never need to see a doc. Your neighbor, co worker, brother, spouse, child may have healthcare issues and need to see a physician often.... I am fit, take no meds, but I do have hypertension and arthritis. Would you object to some pain meds when the arthritis keeps me from sleeping? True, I cannot control the arthritis, and there is the issue of preventative medicine, where folks are urged to eat right, exercise, get rest, get regular check ups and dental care. In the long run, the common good sometimes takes precedence over the individual. If I get your drift, this is your quarrel. But please repeat after me, Congress passes legislation, not the President.
6/29/2009 12:13:50 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
beachingirl Stone Harbor, NJ age: 51	Hopefully the OP will learn that in his citizenship class.....
6/29/2009 6:32:03 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
craftygirl002 Tacoma, WA age: 41	Do you honestly believe you're not paying for 'socialized medicine' now? Seriously?!? The tribal healthcare system is federally funded.... Are you going to start discriminating against native next?? [Edited 6/29/2009 6:32:38 PM PST]
6/29/2009 6:42:58 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
in_doubtalishis Beaumont, CA age: 34	I was looking for this thread Cancer patient cost vs obesity patient cost May I present Exhibit #1 The annual cost of cancer: FEBRUARY 14, 2007 The (High) Cost of Cancer Treatment: I Every three weeks, always on a Thursday afternoon, I amble on over to the cancer center for my IV treatment. (I also take Cytoxan, a chemo drug that comes in pill form, every day, plus a handful of other pills to help deal with the side effects and fringe benefits of being in cancer treatment—anxiety, high blood pressure, occasional depression, insomnia.) The total bill for each treatment session at the cancer center is something north of $20,000. The annual cost of my cancer care is more than $300,000. That’s three hundred thousand dollars a year. Almost $30,000 a month to keep me alive. Here’s how the cost breaks down. My bill from the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance (where I got my treatment until recently) for September 1, 2006—for three drugs, Herceptin, Avastin, and Zometa—was for $20,052.19. The cost of the three drugs, listed as “drugs/detail code,” was $18,142.92. I asked at the pharmacy, and they told me that they charged me $6,254.95 for one dose of Herceptin, and an amazing $9,496.47 for one dose of Avastin. In addition, SCCA charged me almost $2,000 to give me this one treatment. That’s broken down into a total of nine line items, including “pharmacy” ($187.95), “IV therapy” ($233.75), “laboratory” ($180.50), “lab/chemistry” ($386.50). “chemotherapy IV” ($302.50), and so on. SCCA also charges a markup on the chemotherapy drugs themselves, but I was unable to learn how much that is. It’s enough to make me want to roll up my sleeve and do it myself! Both Herceptin and Avastin are made by Genentech Inc., a San Francisco Bay Area company that is doing very well, thank you. The reason they are so expensive is that they are new, and there are no generic versions available. So Genentech can charge whatever it wants, without competition, for these life-saving drugs. I need to do more research to find out how long it will be before other companies will be allowed to make generic versions. Unfortunately, it won’t be in time to help me. As a result of the high cost of Herceptin and Avastin, I am going to hit my lifetime max of $1 million on my health insurance before the end of 2007. Then what? I can’t even afford a month’s worth of cancer treatment on my own. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ How much do you pay for cancer treatment? Send me an e-mail, I’d like to know. jeanne.sather@[blocked] $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ USA Today ran a story in July on the high cost of cancer drugs that has dozens of comments from readers about how to fix the problem, including price controls. Can't argue with that one. The article lists the cost per month of a number of cancer drugs, including Avastin and Herceptin. I'm not sure where USA Today got the numbers, but they appear to be too low. Herceptin, for example, costs about $3,000/month, according to the article, but my cancer center bills me $6,200-plus every three weeks. The article says Avastin costs $4,400/month, while I am billed more than $9,000 every three weeks, but the article does note that this is the price when the drug is used to treat colon cancer. The dose for breast cancer treartment is larger, so the drug is more expensive. The article questions whether or not these expensive drugs are worth it: "These therapies may give patients a few more months, but they are not a cure. Given those limitations, Angell and others question whether the drugs are worth the price." I do have to quibble with that one. Herceptin has helped keep me alive with metastatic disease for more than five years now, and I've added Avastin to that for the past year or so. Those of us living with metastatic disease understand that we won't be cured, but as long as our quality of life is good, let's not talk about pulling the cord! Prices soar for cancer drugs @ Jeanne Sather 2007.
6/29/2009 6:50:24 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
tater79 Springfield, IL age: 30	I say each should pay their own, if they want it, and how it is now, people who can't afford it get it paid for anyways... changing the healthcare system is all about a power gram by Obama and the progressives, it has nothing to do with helping people...
6/29/2009 6:52:47 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
in_doubtalishis Beaumont, CA age: 34	Annual cost of medical for someone who is obese: Note this did not include medications, but I am still researching Exhibit #2 Cost of medical care for an obese person: Obesity in Younger Adults Means Higher Medicare Costs in Older Age Daviglus ML, Liu K, Lijing LL, et al.: Relation of body mass index in young adulthood and middle age to Medicare expenses in older age. JAMA22:2743-2749, 2004. What is the problem and what is known about it so far? Obesity is a major risk factor for heart disease. Obesity also increases the risk of getting high blood pressure, diabetes, and some cancers. Some 130 million adults in the U.S. are overweight or obese. In addition, the U.S. population is getting older. This may mean that Medicare faces big increases in future spending. Who was studied? Participants were taken from an earlier study of working adults in Chicago. At the start of that study, participants' ages ranged from 33 to 64 years. A total of 9,978 men and 7,623 women were followed. None of them had heart disease or diabetes. All were eligible for Medicare for at least 2 years during 1984-2002. How was the study done? In the Chicago study, height, weight, blood pressure, and total cholesterol (the amount of fat in the blood) were measured. Participants filled out medical questionnaires. Each participant had an electrocardiogram (ECG, a test that measures the rate and regularity of a person's heartbeat). Researchers calculated body mass index (BMI), which is a measurement of overweight and obesity. Researchers looked at Medicare claims for each participant. Claims included hospital care, outpatient care, medical equipment, home health care, and hospice care. What did the researchers find? For all adults, the higher the BMI, the higher their annual and total Medicare charges. For example, for normal to overweight women the annual cost was $6,224 and total cost was $76,866. The annual cost for obese women was $9,612 and total cost was $125,470. The annual cost for normal to overweight men was $7,205 and total cost was $100,431. The annual cost for obese men were $10,128 and total cost was $119,318. What were the limitations of the study? Long-term nursing home costs were not included. Prescription drug costs were not included. Veterans Health Administration costs were not included, nor were out-of-pocket costs. What are the implications of the study? Obesity in young adulthood and middle age leads to higher health care costs in older age.
6/29/2009 7:14:49 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
bbw47reader Frederick, MD age: 47	http://www.obesityscam.com/ http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/obesity/causes.htm http://www.slate.com/id/2145689/ http://www.nwhealth.edu/healthyU/keepLean/obesity2.html
6/29/2009 8:19:16 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
summer4us New London, CT age: 52	I think the FDA should be the topic not obese people. The additives alone that addict people to junk food seems to be the problem. If the FDA did their job we would have a lot less obese people in the world.JMO
6/29/2009 8:26:05 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
katrinasq Fort Smith, AR age: 40	See, here's the thing. We Americans have the propensity of blaming everyone but ourselves for our own issues, and then expect someone else to take care of it. This is evidenced by our frivilous lawsuits with ridiculous verdicts, the welfare system, paying illegals to stay here with taxpayer dollars they never paid in, and now, possibly socialized medicine, among other things. And I have news for you, OP. If you are payiong for your insurance, you are already paying for the unhealthy people to be insured at the same rate you are. Every company's insurance use is averaged annually by the insurance carrier, and the more it is used, the more the premiums are. That's where premium increases come from. In order for your idea to work, every disabled person, cancer patient, person with heart disease, epileptic, diabetic, pregnant woman, etc would have to pay extra. Personally, I don't see that flying. And FYI, even at my highest weight of 263, my cholesterol was under 170, low triglycerides etc, and I was in excellent health. So obviously, I was not eating Bic Macs, and was still obese. It took me 4 months to lose 30 pounds working out 4 days a week and eating well. Not all of us are blessed with a good metabnolism, and some of us have to work very hard just to get back down to the overweight category. And not to be b*tchy, but I assume socialized medicine includes dental. So should those of us with healthy teeth have to pay for those that don't take care of their teeth, or have other dental issues through no conscious fault of their own? Didn't think so.
6/29/2009 9:12:36 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
tater79 Springfield, IL age: 30	Quote from katrinasq: See, here's the thing. We Americans have the propensity of blaming everyone but ourselves for our own issues, and then expect someone else to take care of it. This is evidenced by our frivilous lawsuits with ridiculous verdicts, the welfare system, paying illegals to stay here with taxpayer dollars they never paid in, and now, possibly socialized medicine, among other things. And I have news for you, OP. If you are payiong for your insurance, you are already paying for the unhealthy people to be insured at the same rate you are. Every company's insurance use is averaged annually by the insurance carrier, and the more it is used, the more the premiums are. That's where premium increases come from. In order for your idea to work, every disabled person, cancer patient, person with heart disease, epileptic, diabetic, pregnant woman, etc would have to pay extra. Personally, I don't see that flying. I agree with where you are coming from hun... I think the whole point of the OP was basically asking do you support obama's plan, and why... I think this thread got way off the intention.. And FYI, even at my highest weight of 263, my cholesterol was under 170, low triglycerides etc, and I was in excellent health. So obviously, I was not eating Bic Macs, and was still obese. It took me 4 months to lose 30 pounds working out 4 days a week and eating well. Not all of us are blessed with a good metabnolism, and some of us have to work very hard just to get back down to the overweight category. And not to be b*tchy, but I assume socialized medicine includes dental. So should those of us with healthy teeth have to pay for those that don't take care of their teeth, or have other dental issues through no conscious fault of their own? Didn't think so.
6/29/2009 9:17:34 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
bbw47reader Frederick, MD age: 47	Quote from katrinasq: See, here's the thing. We Americans have the propensity of blaming everyone but ourselves for our own issues, and then expect someone else to take care of it. This is evidenced by our frivilous lawsuits with ridiculous verdicts, the welfare system, paying illegals to stay here with taxpayer dollars they never paid in, and now, possibly socialized medicine, among other things. And I have news for you, OP. If you are payiong for your insurance, you are already paying for the unhealthy people to be insured at the same rate you are. Every company's insurance use is averaged annually by the insurance carrier, and the more it is used, the more the premiums are. That's where premium increases come from. In order for your idea to work, every disabled person, cancer patient, person with heart disease, epileptic, diabetic, pregnant woman, etc would have to pay extra. Personally, I don't see that flying. And FYI, even at my highest weight of 263, my cholesterol was under 170, low triglycerides etc, and I was in excellent health. So obviously, I was not eating Bic Macs, and was still obese. It took me 4 months to lose 30 pounds working out 4 days a week and eating well. Not all of us are blessed with a good metabnolism, and some of us have to work very hard just to get back down to the overweight category. And not to be b*tchy, but I assume socialized medicine includes dental. So should those of us with healthy teeth have to pay for those that don't take care of their teeth, or have other dental issues through no conscious fault of their own? Didn't think so.
6/29/2009 10:47:04 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
jasmi Latrobe, PA age: 52	Quote from bbw47reader: Well, you're going to pay for smokers. You're going to pay for the skinny to average person that still eats a heart attack diet. You're going to pay for anorexics and bulimics. STDs of the promiscuous. Abortions. Drug addicts. Alcoholics. Mentally ill. Non-compliant diabetics. Those who ignore their cholesterol. Those who ignore their high blood pressure. Better start making you protest signs now. I couldn't have said it better myself, why did you single out obese people? And it is harder to control then you might think, it's not as easy as just put down the fork.
6/29/2009 11:43:37 PM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
alicekathleen Sacramento, CA age: 64	That is a good point. We are, all of us, alive in this moment together. Not all of us are healthy, sickness and death come to everyone, regardless. You, too, the poster, will suffer in life from sickness or accidents, or old age. You may lose your hearing or your sight, have a heart attack, break a hip, rupture your spleen. You, too, may need hospice care. Healthcare for all means just that, healthcare when it is needed.
6/30/2009 8:50:34 AM	Should the fit pay for obese-care if Obama socializes medicine?
oldeschoolcharm Monroe, WA age: 48	Quote from jasmi: I couldn't have said it better myself, why did you single out obese people? And it is harder to control then you might think, it's not as easy as just put down the fork. Of course it is! Consume less calories than you burn and you will lose weight, regardless of how messed up your metabolism is. Your health should be an incentive. Still hungry? Eat celery: it takes more calories to break it down than it provides and it fills you up. And I says this as someone who needs to get off my lazy a** and spend more time in the gym too. As to WHY I chose the obese, it's simple. Right now, they don't cost me anything, tax-wise. So, I have no legitimate reason to discriminate against them, other than, perhaps, a matter of what I consider attractive. But, socialized health care would change that. If premiums were the same for everyone (or equally progressive like an income tax), the unfit would cost more than they paid and effectively be subsidized by the fit. Would the obese be charged more on their taxes to compensate? Would you have to submit a physical with your tax return? Such government intrusion would not be tolerated. No, I suspect a flat health care tax or appropriation of existing tax revenue would be implemented, and the unhealthy benefit disproportionately to their premiums. Do not confuse payment with premium. When warranted, payment ALWAYS exceeds premium. Insurance is a statistical game. Over the entire population, with equal premiums, in a non-profit scenario, total payments equal total premiums less overhead. However, you will find that total payments for the unfit would exceed total premiums from them (less overhead), whereas the reverse would be true for the fit. Effectively, the fit would subsidize the unfit. You could argue that the law of large numbers reduces the estimation error to yield a net positive effect if MORE are insured even if these are "undesirable" from a risk perspective, but it would be a hard case to prove. Right now, I carry life insurance on myself, for my kids. You can bet that my premiums are based on how healthy I am. Would the same be said of national health care premiums? A few other points: 1. I am well aware that it is the legislative branch, not the executive branch, of the federal government that enacts legislation. However, presidential candidates campaign on the basis of a legislative agenda, and it is not incorrect to attribute proposed legislation to them when they propose it. 2. Fat people on welfare cost me money, not because they are fat, but because they are on welfare. 3. "Everyone should have healthcare". Well, it would be nice if everyone were guaranteed other "esentials", like food, clothing, shelter, etc. But, who will foot the bill? The government doesn't provide anything: it merely redistributes the taxpayers' money. 4. Health care is too expensive. Perhaps, but examine what is available. Would you rather have cancer treatment that costs $30k a month or it not exist at all? Frankly, why should other people pay to keep someone alive, anyway? It reduces their ability to spend that money on themselves if they needed it. That arrangement is only moral if it is consensual, not mandatory. If expensive health care is made affordable simply by government decree, then the taxpayers will be billed. This is a dangerous socialist power grab in a nation with an obesity epidemic: get the fat to vote a measure that takes more money from the fit, and increases the profits of insurers while the fat get minimal (and it will be minimal, mark my words from experience) care to keep their "votes" alive. Ever see someone wait months for a tonsillectomy, years for a hip replacement, and not be offered surgery for cellulitis? Go to Canada. A far better approach is reducing insurer's overhead by standardizing coverages. Right now, different people have different insurers with different coverages, who are billed differently by different providers. The overhead is absurd, Also, malpractice insurance would become far less expensive if malpractice awards could be capped. It's sad that Johnny had the wrong toe amputated, but it might be worth $5,000 and not $5,000,000 to compensate him. However, whenever such measures were put to public vote, they were rejected. If you want cheaper health care, strive to end the practice of discriminatory billing of the uninsured. You do realize that insurers negotiate discounts on what they pay providers, right? Argue that a procedure costs the same regardless of who pays, and you will see a marked decrease. The point can be made that the uninsured are a payment risk, but that's what finance charges are for. The fact that the U.S. does not have nationalized health care is one reason I immigrated here. I hope it stays that way. Otherwise, I'll have reason to call the obese "thieves". [Edited 6/30/2009 8:50:59 AM PST]