7/3/2009 11:06:02 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Don't prayer in my school and I won't think at your church. Promise.





[Edited 7/3/2009 11:06:27 PM PST]

7/4/2009 3:03:42 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

barbaque
Over 1,000 Posts (1,313)
Marble Falls, TX
age: 60


Theres no thinking allowed in school either .you are to learn what they tell you to learn even if it's not true .

7/4/2009 3:07:58 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
ying_n_yang
Toledo, OH
age: 47


if you can teach your values/morals ( or lack of ) to my children
i should be allowed to teach mine to yours ..... or .....

just teach children the 3 r's and leave the rest to the parents !!

7/4/2009 10:18:01 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
bravehart64
Over 2,000 Posts (2,619)
Gainesville, FL
age: 45


zappa .I try not to redicule religion it is what it is an act of faith .Faith is a powerful force and can be good or it can be manipulated and instill fear and hatred ...brave

7/4/2009 10:19:29 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from ying_n_yang:
if you can teach your values/morals ( or lack of ) to my children
i should be allowed to teach mine to yours ..... or .....

just teach children the 3 r's and leave the rest to the parents !!



B!...but there's more to school than RRA. They offer law (general and Constitutional), psychology, science (especially the facts about evolution), social studies, arts, history (that includes the past and present religion inspired wars/violence), black/minority history (to show how wrong racisms and discriminations are), (real) sex education/health (that includes consequences of having unprotected sex (STD's and unwanted pregnancies). Just the facts (not some ignorant and degrading depiction of basic human sexuality intended to shame).

Spirituality can be taught at home and church...you just have to hope the parents and preachers are not teaching intolerances/hatred, brainwashing these poor kids into not being able to accept facts about science/history...not learning to think for themselves.

Hopefully not this: batshit...



7/4/2009 10:29:23 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Jesse Ventura was right when he said that religion is a scam.

They need to start taxing the churches especially the Mormon Church.

It will help to lower the deficit.

7/4/2009 10:31:29 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
bravehart64
Over 2,000 Posts (2,619)
Gainesville, FL
age: 45


Quote from walter555:
Jesse Ventura was right when he said that religion is a scam.

They need to start taxing the churches especially the Mormon Church.

It will help to lower the deficit.
What about those TV evengelists that fly around in Jets and rob old folks of there life savings ? They should be sharing a cell with Maddof ..brave

7/4/2009 10:33:11 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

kinkycapitalist
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,760)
Atlanta, GA
age: 55


What both need is a legally mandated mninute of laughter.



7/4/2009 10:37:02 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from bravehart64:
zappa .I try not to redicule religion it is what it is an act of faith .Faith is a powerful force and can be good or it can be manipulated and instill fear and hatred ...brave


Oh, I am not shiding normal sane Christians...just the drooling tongued wagging ones who want to raise another gen of kill kill kill! "onward Christian soldiers" (to convert or kill) is just another terrorist group's MO to me. Enough already....at least keep them out of our schools and especially our government....check this out:

“WHEREAS, we believe our economic woes are consequences of our greater national
moral crisis; and
WHEREAS, this nation has become a world leader in promoting abortion,
pornography, same sex marriage, sex trafficking, divorce, illegitimate births, child abuse, and
many other forms of debauchery; and
WHEREAS, alarmed that the Government of the United States of America is forsaking
the rich Christian heritage upon which this nation was built; and
WHEREAS, grieved that the Office of the president of these United States has refused
to uphold the long held tradition of past presidents in giving recognition to our National Day of
Prayer; and
WHEREAS, deeply disturbed that the Office of the president of these United States
disregards the biblical admonitions to live clean and pure lives by proclaiming an entire month to
an immoral behavior”

(what month is that?)

http://www.examiner.com/x-4107-Gay--Lesbian-Issues-Examiner~y2009m7d2-Rep-Sally-Kern--Gay-marriage-is-to-blame-for-the-bad-economy

This is a state rep in Oklahoma...she won by a huge margin last Nov...in my district. People here tend to be dippical myopeons intent on controlling people instead of seeking humanist solutions to our problems...e.g.teen drinking causes unwanted pregnancies/bad behavour...so why are they NOT "proclaiming" against the immorality OF the alcohol industry and the parent that give this drug to their kids?

~~~~

I date a Christian...she get's it...and as long as my non-beliefs are attacked by these people I will stand up for SANITY...and the Constitution they seek to destroy.



[Edited 7/4/2009 10:39:54 AM PST]

7/4/2009 10:40:19 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


I'm still waiting for one of those tele - Evangelists
to heal an amputee
on tv in front of a nationwide audience with credible judges on the stage.



7/4/2009 10:42:15 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from walter555:
I'm still waiting for one of those tele - Evangelists
to heal an amputee
on tv in front of a nationwide audience with credible judges on the stage.



Their ALL amputees...they've lost their heads!

7/4/2009 11:01:56 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Whatever happened to the separation of church and state?






7/4/2009 11:15:43 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

tater79
Over 2,000 Posts (3,830)
Springfield, IL
age: 30


sound great, and my taxes won't go to your school, and I will not give my tax money to any of the other things I feel are anti-GOD... sound fair to me...



[Edited 7/4/2009 11:17:32 AM PST]

7/4/2009 11:21:00 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

tater79
Over 2,000 Posts (3,830)
Springfield, IL
age: 30


Quote from ying_n_yang:
if you can teach your values/morals ( or lack of ) to my children
i should be allowed to teach mine to yours ..... or .....

just teach children the 3 r's and leave the rest to the parents !!




7/4/2009 11:22:33 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Quote from tater79:
sound great, and my taxes won't go to your school, not will I give my tax money to any of the other things I feel are anti-GOD... sound fair to me...


Which God are you talking about???

the Mormon God?
the God of Islam?
jehovah?
Odin?
Zeus


There are a lot Gods so I am not sure which one you're talking about.








7/4/2009 11:42:58 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

tater79
Over 2,000 Posts (3,830)
Springfield, IL
age: 30


I hate to tell you this, but there is only one TRUE LIVING GOD, who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
This Country wasn't founded to be a Christian Country, but it was Founded on Christian principles, the laws and the Constitution were based on Christian principles....

But the Constitution allows for anyone to believe anything they want to here and practice any religion they wish, but their religious beliefs don't trump the constitution. the people who wrote the constitution didn't know a big part of the country would become atheists, and have all these new religions that are made up come to be. otherwise I'm sure they would have been more precise in the words they wrote...

Look at all the statues etc etc. from back then that was part of government places the were all based on Christianity

7/4/2009 11:56:15 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from tater79:
I hate to tell you this, but there is only one TRUE LIVING GOD, who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
This Country wasn't founded to be a Christian Country, but it was Founded on Christian principles, the laws and the Constitution were based on Christian principles....

But the Constitution allows for anyone to believe anything they want to here and practice any religion they wish, but their religious beliefs don't trump the constitution. the people who wrote the constitution didn't know a big part of the country would become atheists, and have all these new religions that are made up come to be. otherwise I'm sure they would have been more precise in the words they wrote...

Look at all the statues etc etc. from back then that was part of government places the were all based on Christianity


There are many "gods"...what man can prove one over another as "truth"...therefore this country is a diverse society based on .....diversity...get it? Also they had atheist then too....you think "non-believers" as a new concept? Egads man! Plus do have I have to point out the contradictions in your post? Isn't there something in your own commandments about "graven images" (monuments)?...something like that anyway.

The damage to this country by the religious extremists was/is horrible...

Photobucket

7/4/2009 12:06:31 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Quote from tater79:
I hate to tell you this, but there is only one TRUE LIVING GOD, who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
This Country wasn't founded to be a Christian Country, but it was Founded on Christian principles, the laws and the Constitution were based on Christian principles....

Look at all the statues etc etc. from back then that was part of government places the were all based on Christianity







7/4/2009 12:13:59 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

tater79
Over 2,000 Posts (3,830)
Springfield, IL
age: 30


yeah, we are not suppose to worship idols, or make images of things that are in heaven

meaning GOD, Angels, etc. I'm not sure if Jesus is included in that or not, because Jesus was made in human form..

7/4/2009 12:17:41 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Quote from tater79:
yeah, we are not suppose to worship idols, or make images of things that are in heaven

meaning GOD, Angels, etc. I'm not sure if Jesus is included in that or not, because Jesus was made in human form..


Why don't you take your religious gibberish to the religion threads where it belongs.

You can bear your testimony there and speak in tongues with the other folks.

7/4/2009 12:19:37 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from tater79:
yeah, we are not suppose to worship idols, or make images of things that are in heaven

meaning GOD, Angels, etc. I'm not sure if Jesus is included in that or not, because Jesus was made in human form..


He was a carpenter...humm, I wonder what he charged for shelving? Some think "Jesus IS God"....but god was never in human form right?...yall need to work it all out on your own...lol...but leave me and my government out of it OK?

Fair enough?

Photobucket



[Edited 7/4/2009 12:20:33 PM PST]

7/4/2009 12:22:58 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

tater79
Over 2,000 Posts (3,830)
Springfield, IL
age: 30


I posted my thoughts about the subject, then you asked me questions, which I anwsered, maybe you should of asked those questions in the religious area

7/4/2009 12:45:37 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from tater79:
I posted my thoughts about the subject, then you asked me questions, which I anwsered, maybe you should of asked those questions in the religious area


Oh, we can't rip on the religion page...the myopeons will kick us so we just let them argue amongst themselves...baptist against islam and even baptist against other baptist's interpetations....etc. They have become more divided and that's a good sign for the survival of democracy...

7/4/2009 12:58:13 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

tater79
Over 2,000 Posts (3,830)
Springfield, IL
age: 30


It's not a particual type of Christian that is going to heaven, whether it be baptist, penecostal, etc etc. IT is what the persons basic beliefs are... there are different interpretation but many of them came from the same book..

I don't go to church myself, But I do read the KJV of the Bible and make my own decisions on what it says, as oppose to beleiving everything someone else tells me to believe...

There are actually only a few basic things to truely beleive, in order to get there, but most will never truely believe those few things..JMO

7/4/2009 1:35:38 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
pariah2
Spring, TX
age: 42


fzappa: you are right. all religion results in war. Why? Because every single person on this earth has a religion. You don't believe in anything so that is your religion. If you are an atheist...that is you relgion. If you believe in evolution...that is your religion. Look up the definition of religion. It is a belief system. Your argument is old outdated and pathetic. If you believe in nothing and someone told you that your daughter means nothing and your momma means nothing, well in this case you may want to fight. So, yes you are correct religion leads to war. Now, do you have another point to discuss? How about a view that will not easily get shot down? Why do you fear the majority? You want laws built around your religion of secularism or whatever it is, you should do what is necessary to become the majority. Are you implying that you do not have the power of Jesus to brainwash millions? Since you probably believe we are brainwashed. I think you are jealous because you don't have convincing powers as Jesus did and still does. You lose



[Edited 7/4/2009 1:43:03 PM PST]

7/4/2009 6:45:51 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from pariah2:
fzappa: you are right. all religion results in war. Why? Because every single person on this earth has a religion. You don't believe in anything so that is your religion. If you are an atheist...that is you relgion. If you believe in evolution...that is your religion. Look up the definition of religion. It is a belief system. Your argument is old outdated and pathetic. If you believe in nothing and someone told you that your daughter means nothing and your momma means nothing, well in this case you may want to fight. So, yes you are correct religion leads to war. Now, do you have another point to discuss? How about a view that will not easily get shot down? Why do you fear the majority? You want laws built around your religion of secularism or whatever it is, you should do what is necessary to become the majority. Are you implying that you do not have the power of Jesus to brainwash millions? Since you probably believe we are brainwashed. I think you are jealous because you don't have convincing powers as Jesus did and still does. You lose


"I think you are jealous because you don't have convincing powers as Jesus did and still does."

WTF?...lol...unreal. I pass...

~~~

You're right tho~, I guess I DO have a religion...and that is music. I reach my sprituality through music...Led Zep, Pink Floyd, Beatles, John Prine...OZZY..oh, and Frank Zappa! It's just that I am not demanding a monument honoring Alice Cooper to be placed as a sate capital lawn ornament...like the hardcore myopeon-like Christians did here in Oklahoma with their 10 Commandments thing.

No, more a non-established-as-faith-based type of religious person...I just rock!. You just want to create grey area to include ME as the problem with our planet. My views of how we can stop wars are all by nonviolent, not idealogical means..it's about humanism...that's the difference..get it? We...lol...(I hope there are others) are not bound to any ONE specific path...it's what's rational...what's best to bring peace, end hunger, stop abuses, clean up the planet. It seems religions are opposed to all that...apparently. If I am wrong are there no people unjustly suffering tonight? Let me know please.

It amazes me that we cannot evolve past wars...and the leading causes of wars? Religion...not evolutionist, atheists (maybe a few...very few)...Yall have this "faith" thing going..and cannot stop pushing it as an answer. Faith is: believing in something you cannot prove...this religious folly has gone on for thousands of years...enough already with your disasterous means to an end bullshit.

Nope, I don't depend on faith in something...if I don't know the truth I am still comfortable...I don't need some ancient violent writ to lamely answer the questions that man cannot answer. I wait for theories and evidences of truths. That's my bag...what's your problem with that? Are you one of those people who think I can have no moral compass because I don't follow a religio a "truth" that cannot be proven?...I am so tired of that bullshit excuse to dismiss...it's pathetic to imply that of anyone you do not know. That would be bigoted right? That then becomes a religioun inspired discrimination. See how it works?

Actually I respect the humble unimposing Christians, I have Christian friends and I am not shiding them, it's people on this board..the absolutists that I truely object to....these zealots, these extremists that are ruining the progressing of humanity. I am ashamed of my species and what we're done to life on this planet.

I wish I could find more faith in humans but they are slow to learn, or too easy to suck into idealogies that kill...discriminate, suppress, stagnate...etc etc etc.

"save" THAT!

Not attacking...just defending...so reality, don't be lying. If you have to lie then do it on the religion page where it may belong. This is a political thread...

No religion in politics!

"Music is the only religion that delivers the goods."
— Frank Zappa



[Edited 7/4/2009 6:48:13 PM PST]

7/4/2009 7:45:51 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


Quote from fzappa:
Oh, we can't rip on the religion page...the myopeons will kick us so we just let them argue amongst themselves...baptist against islam and even baptist against other baptist's interpetations....etc. They have become more divided and that's a good sign for the survival of democracy...


Fzappa, like most Liberals who rant about religion, is a perfect example of Chrétien malgré lui, i.e., Christian in spite of. He does not perceive he is as infected with Christian superstition as most True Believers. He has merely rejected Jesus and his dad, but retained in his mind the essentials of the Christian Doctrine.

The following is a good overview of what I mean.


"Liberalism" is a succedaneous religion that was devised late in the Eighteenth Century and it originally included a vague deism. Like the Christianity from which it sprang, it split into various sects and heresies, such as Jacobinism, Fourierism, Owenism, Fabian Socialism, Marxism, and the like. The doctrine of the "Liberal" cults is essentially Christianity divested of its belief in supernatural beings, but retaining its social superstitions, which were originally derived from, and necessarily depend on, the supposed wishes of a god. This "Liberalism," the residue of Christianity, is, despite the fervor with which its votaries hold their faith, merely a logical absurdity, a series of deductions from a premise that has been denied.

The dependence of the "Liberal" cults on a blind and irrational faith was long obscured or concealed by their professed esteem for objective science, which they used as a polemic weapon against orthodox Christianity, much as the Protestants took up the Copernican restoration of heliocentric astronomy as a weapon against the Catholics, who had imprudently decided that the earth could be stopped from revolving about the sun in defiance of Holy Writ by burning intelligent men at the stake or torturing them until they recanted...

The votaries of "Liberalism" would have much preferred to have the various human species specially created to form one race endowed with the fictitious qualities dear to "Liberal" fancy, but the cultists saw the advantage of endorsing the findings of geology and biology, including the evolution of species, in their polemics against orthodox Christianity to show the absurdity of the Jewish version of the Sumerian creation-myth. The hypocrisy of the professed devotion to scientific knowledge was, however, made unmistakable when the "Liberals" began their frantic and often hysterical efforts to suppress scientific knowledge about genetics and the obviously innate differences between the different human species and between the individuals of any given species...

It is unnecessary to dilate on the superstitions of "Liberalism." They are obvious in the cult's holy words. "Liberals" are forever chattering about "all mankind," a term which does have a specific meaning, as do parallel terms in biology, such as "all marsupials" or "all species of the genus Canis," but the fanatics give to the term a mystic and special meaning, derived from the Zoroastrian myth of "all mankind" and its counterpart in Stoic speculation, but absurd when used by persons who deny the existence of Ahuru Mazda or a comparable deity who could be supposed to have imposed a transcendental unity on the manifest diversity of the various human species. "Liberals" rant about "human rights" with the fervor of an evangelist who appeals to what Moses purportedly said, but a moment's thought suffices to show that, in the absence of a god who might be presumed to have decreed such rights, the only rights are those which the citizens of a stable society, by agreement or by a long usage that has acquired the force of law, bestow on themselves...

"Liberals" babble about "One World," which is to be a "universal democracy" and is "inevitable," and they thus describe it in the very terms in which the notion was formulated, two thousand years ago, by Philo Judaeus...And the "Liberal" cults, having rejected the Christian doctrine of "original sin," which, although based on a silly myth about Adam and Eve, corresponded fairly well to the facts of human nature, have even reverted to the most pernicious aspect of Christianity, which common sense had held in check in Europe until the Eighteenth Century; and they openly exhibit the morbid Christian fascination with whatever is lowly, proletarian, inferior, irrational, debased, deformed, and degenerate. This maudlin preoccupation with biological refuse, usually sicklied over with such nonsense words as 'under*privileged* [!],' would make sense, if it had been decreed by a god who perversely chose to become incarnate among the most pestiferous of human races and to select his disciples from among the illiterate dregs of even that *peuplade*, but since the "Liberals" claim to have rejected belief in such a divinity, their superstition is exposed as having no basis other than their own resentment of their betters and their professional interest in exploiting the gullibility of their compatriots.


7/4/2009 7:53:42 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

eroot
Webster City, IA
age: 34


their superstition is exposed as having no basis other than their own resentment of their betters and their professional interest in exploiting the gullibility of their compatriots.

i think that covers all organized religious entities nicely, actually. ;p

7/4/2009 8:13:26 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


So you quote a white supremist to support your bullshit reply?


That's VERY telling...get that shit outta here.

Revilo P. Oliver


"Oliver crusaded for rightist causes such as white rights and a European America. He was a founding member of the John Birch Society (1958) and a member of its council until 1966, when he was expelled because of his public racism. He was an associate editor of its periodical American Opinion and wrote regularly for it. According to Kevin Alfred Strom, “He saw clearly, and long before most of his countrymen, where the subversive and alien elements were leading his people, and he chose to risk reputation and social position to speak out. From 1954 until his death in August 1994, he worked almost without ceasing for the awakening of Americans of European descent to their danger and their possible great destiny.”


http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/the_critics/oliver/Oliverbio.html



[Edited 7/4/2009 8:22:41 PM PST]

7/4/2009 9:43:32 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


Quote from fzappa:
So you quote a white suppremist to support your bullshit reply? You're hanging with dangerous minds...this guy is as bad as Ann Coulter or that phat phuck Limpballs.

Do you even know about the author?


LOL!

Yes, I know about the author. I know a great deal about the author.

He was right about the Liberals and their being nothing more than a cult of Christian Heretics. The author wrote a great deal on this subject.

Yes, you would consider Oliver a "dangerous mind" since he had your number down pact. Your entire philosophy of life is straight Jesus and his teachings, you have merely edited out Jesus. I am amused by both Christians and liberals that they do not see they are in essential agreement on virtually all matters of social policy. The religious people think Christianity is the cure for Liberalism, the Liberals think Christianity is anathema to Liberalism. The truth is and has always been that Christianity is the sine qua non of Liberalism.

During the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, the Christian Churches and Christian Seminaries were the primary recruiting grounds of both Communists and Socialists.

For fun, here is a 1965 speech by Oliver entitled Can Liberals be Educated?

I have been asked to discuss with you tonight the grave social and biological problem presented by that noisy band of persons who currently call themselves "liberal intellectuals." It is not a new problem. The contemporary specimens have inherited the whole of their little stock of phrases and notions, which they are pleased to call "ideas," from their predecessors in the 18th Century, when they called themselves *philosophes*, since France was the country in which they were then making the most noise. But they represent a biological tendency which you can trace back historically until you see that it is much older than civilization itself.

That there may be no misunderstanding, let me make it clear that tonight I shall consistently use the word "intellectual" within quotation marks as the designation that a group of persons have given themselves. I shall not use the word as a common noun with its correct English meaning. If we used the word in that sense, we could do little more than agree with Ayn Rand, who, in a recent book, says quite bluntly:



"Our present state of cultural disintegration is not maintained and prolonged by intellectuals as such, but by the fact that *we haven't any*. The majority of those who pose as 'intellectuals' today are frightened zombies, posturing in a vacuum of their own making.... The key to their souls is their longing for the effortless, irresponsible, automatic consciousness of an animal. They dread the necessity, the risk, and the responsibility of rational cognition."



So tonight we shall talk about "*intellectuals*."

The problem, however, is particularly urgent today. It concerns all of us. As we all know, the Communist takeover of the United States, now in progress, would have been impossible, had not the self-styled "intellectuals" done so much of the Conspiracy's work for it. But Bolshevism is a subject that we cannot consider tonight, for I must limit myself strictly to "liberal intellectuals" as distinct from members of the International Conspiracy, although I admit that in many cases it is very difficult to tell the difference.

We must all cope with "intellectuals' every day, but I particularly hope that the suggestions that I am going to offer may be useful to those members of this audience who are most besieged and harassed.

One of the chief reasons why I permit myself to hope that our nation may yet survive and have a future is the fact that among the hordes that swarm over college campuses these days there is a considerable number -- even a large number -- of students, who, amid many obstacles and difficulties, are trying to ascertain for themselves the nature of the world in which they live. Every campus, of course, also has its rabble of young "liberals," who are forever making a din as they "demonstrate" for "world peash," "snivel rights," and the like, and who, if we may judge from their appearance and their yammering, are as afraid of war as they are of soap.

I am sure that every student here present fully understands the importance of staying on the good side of the young "intellectuals" -- I mean the windward side, of course.

The student's real difficulty arises from the fact that the self-styled "liberal intellectuals," by methods described in the two books (*Keynes At Harvard* and *The Great Deceit*) published by the Veritas Foundation, have attainted a strangle-hold on American education, and very few college students can escape the ministrations of the "liberal" professor, who urges or requires them to follow him down the rabbit hole or behind the looking glass into the Wonderland in which "intellectuals" live, and in which the hapless student must emulate the White Queen, who, you will remember, was able, with just a little practice, to believe six impossible things before breakfast every mornig.

Now, a serious examination of the problem of "liberal intellectuals" must, I believe, begin with recognition of one fundamental fact -- that we are dealing with the phenomenon that is know in biology as *symbiosis*. In other words, we are examining not one species, but two, that are interdependent, just as in the example of symbiosis that will come to everyone's mind: many species of ants maintain aphids in their nests, and in such an arrangement, the ants could not live without the aphids nor the aphids without the ants.

As I have said, I consider this symbiosis as the fundamental fact in our problem tonight, so let me illustrate it with two or three examples that will make it clear.

In the second half of the 19th Century lived a distinguished French mathematician, Professor Michel Chasles. He was the author of a number of treatises that you will find cited in any reasonably complete work on geometrical theory, prisms, or conic sections. He developed a method of analytical geometry independent of the calculus, and his treatise on the displacement of solids is regarded as a mathematical classic. He was a member of the French Acad‚mie des Sciences, which means that he was recognized as one of the 66 best scientific minds in all France, and he was furthermore the recipient of the highest honor that the Royal Society of London could bestow.

Now Professor Chasles was quite wealthy, and one day there came to him an enterprising young intellectual named Vrain-Lucas, who was -- he said -- a specialist in finding old documents, particularly autographs. He sold the good professor an original letter which proved that Descartes had anticipated all the discoveries of Newton. Professor Chasles was elated to be the possessor of a document of such vast significance in the history of science, and his appetite was whetted for more. So he made Vrain-Lucas promise to bring to him all his sensational finds. Vrain-Lucas did; he supplied remarkable documents, first, one at a time, then by the dozen, and then by the score.

Continued...

http://www.stormfront.org/rpo/LIBERALS.htm




[Edited 7/4/2009 9:46:22 PM PST]

7/5/2009 5:58:59 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
leslie40
Marion, NC
age: 40


Quote from tater79:
I hate to tell you this, but there is only one TRUE LIVING GOD, who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
This Country wasn't founded to be a Christian Country, but it was Founded on Christian principles, the laws and the Constitution were based on Christian principles....

But the Constitution allows for anyone to believe anything they want to here and practice any religion they wish, but their religious beliefs don't trump the constitution. the people who wrote the constitution didn't know a big part of the country would become atheists, and have all these new religions that are made up come to be. otherwise I'm sure they would have been more precise in the words they wrote...

Look at all the statues etc etc. from back then that was part of government places the were all based on Christianity




Our forefathers had the right idea to separate church and state in order to avoid religious persecution like what is NOW happening in the middle east. It was similar in Europe at that time. Imagine if Iraq and others would have had laws preventing such persecution, alot of innocent lives would have been spared as well as our lack of involvement in their process.

I have no idea of the number of atheists here...but I think it has more to do with special interests groups that are in the minority making a loud thunder. I think our forefathers maybe erred in not predicting the selfishness of special interests dominating politics.

7/5/2009 6:38:47 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

jongeo
Naples, FL
age: 53


Quote from tater79:
I hate to tell you this, but there is only one TRUE LIVING GOD, who is the Father of Jesus Christ.
This Country wasn't founded to be a Christian Country, but it was Founded on Christian principles, the laws and the Constitution were based on Christian principles....

But the Constitution allows for anyone to believe anything they want to here and practice any religion they wish, but their religious beliefs don't trump the constitution. the people who wrote the constitution didn't know a big part of the country would become atheists, and have all these new religions that are made up come to be. otherwise I'm sure they would have been more precise in the words they wrote...

Look at all the statues etc etc. from back then that was part of government places the were all based on Christianity



-

TATER -YOU GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT.

Sounds like Zap is totally INTOLERANT.They teach homosexuality and other immoral crap. No morality IS immorality.
Zap sounds like the kind of person who blocks his ears when going by a church service.Hate to see him on Christmas.

Battle Hymn of the Republic

In the beauty of the lillies, Christ was born across the sea,

With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.

As He died to make mn holy, let us die to make men free.

His truth is marching on.
********
America has a mission. Sorry you don't get it.

7/5/2009 11:55:37 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from iconwizard4444:


So you ARE a white supremist then. That explains a lot.....

7/5/2009 11:57:32 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from jongeo:
-

TATER -YOU GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT.

Sounds like Zap is totally INTOLERANT.They teach homosexuality and other immoral crap. No morality IS immorality.
Zap sounds like the kind of person who blocks his ears when going by a church service.Hate to see him on Christmas.

Battle Hymn of the Republic

In the beauty of the lillies, Christ was born across the sea,

With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.

As He died to make mn holy, let us die to make men free.

His truth is marching on.
********
America has a mission. Sorry you don't get it.


How old is this plant?

(just checking to see to what extent religious teachings can cause brain damage)

7/5/2009 12:08:46 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


Quote from fzappa:
So you ARE a white supremist then. That explains a lot.....


If fzappa had lived a few centuries ago, he would instead be saying, "God help us, this man does not believe the earth is the center of the universe!" He would be like the Catholic bishops who would not look through a telescope.

Fzappa is a True Believer, just of another sort. Any deviation from his own faith is Heresy, and he responds to such blasphemy accordingly, just like the Christians he derides so much do another sort of blasphemy.

7/5/2009 12:16:51 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from iconwizard4444:
If fzappa had lived a few centuries ago, he would instead be saying, "God help us, this man does not believe the earth is the center of the universe!" He would be like the Catholic bishops who would not look through a telescope.

Fzappa is a True Believer, just of another sort. Any deviation from his own faith is Heresy, and he responds to such blasphemy accordingly, just like the Christians he derides so much do another sort of blasphemy.


Answer the question...



[Edited 7/5/2009 12:17:12 PM PST]

7/5/2009 12:28:41 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


What question? You haven't asked any. I told you already my thoughts.

You are just a devoted apostle of Liberalism and the Cult of Equality. Everything you write tells me this is so. You have a doctrine that you have extreme faith in, and Christians have another. Anyone who does not toe the line of your doctrine is a heretic in your mind. Look at your writing in regards to me.

LOL, when you ask me a question or comment on one of my posts, it is just like when a Christian sometimes asks, in a solemn tone, "Don't you believe in God? You doubt the Bible?"

7/5/2009 1:45:06 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

jongeo
Naples, FL
age: 53


Quote from fzappa:
How old is this plant?

(just checking to see to what extent religious teachings can cause brain damage)


-
OK Mr music man-Here's Your song

THE BEATLES lyrics - "Nowhere Man"


www.OldieLyrics.com


THE BEATLES lyrics - Nowhere Man


Send "Nowhere Man" ringtone to your phone

(Lennon/McCartney)

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

Nowhere Man, don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else lends you a hand

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

He's a real Nowhere Man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody


THE BEATLES - "Nowhere Man" lyrics

www.OldieLyrics.com


:



[Edited 7/5/2009 1:46:07 PM PST]

7/5/2009 2:10:22 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Answer the question...and I've used that song to describe the dippical ones, the bitter absolutists who have lost their way...I also use this one...bet you don't get it...





[Edited 7/5/2009 2:13:39 PM PST]

7/5/2009 4:19:00 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

jongeo
Naples, FL
age: 53


Yeah What question? Is it in the video? I can not watch it -not everyone can.

7/6/2009 8:49:32 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

eroot
Webster City, IA
age: 34


Quote from iconwizard4444:
What question? You haven't asked any. I told you already my thoughts.

You are just a devoted apostle of Liberalism and the Cult of Equality. Everything you write tells me this is so. You have a doctrine that you have extreme faith in, and Christians have another. Anyone who does not toe the line of your doctrine is a heretic in your mind. Look at your writing in regards to me.

LOL, when you ask me a question or comment on one of my posts, it is just like when a Christian sometimes asks, in a solemn tone, "Don't you believe in God? You doubt the Bible?"



he didn't ask a question actually, but i think we know what was implied:

Quote from fzappa:
So you ARE a white supremacist then. That explains a lot.....

He is asking you if you are a white supremacist, which would be:

Are you a white supremacist?

7/6/2009 9:32:39 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


Quote from eroot:
he didn't ask a question actually, but i think we know what was implied:

Quote from fzappa:
So you ARE a white supremacist then. That explains a lot.....


He is asking you if you are a white supremacist, which would be:

Are you a white supremacist?


Do you see on the top right and bottom right of these pages where you can go from page to page in a thread? For example, this is page 3 of this thread. You can click on 2 or 1 and go to those pages, too! Why don't you try that? You might find that I answered his question. (Didn't I already write once that I answered the question? And, hey, come to think of it, didn't fzappa write above that he saw and understood my answer?)

For the record, I think, despite much denial, most people are white supremacists. Why do I say that? It should be obvious. Let me illustrate with an analogy. Suppose you know a guy who eats at the same restaurant you do every day. Furthermore, suppose you know for a fact he ONLY eats at that restaurant and no other, despite there being four or five other restaurants in the same area. Now suppose this guy is forever talking about how great the other restaurants all are and even often implying they are better. But he never eats at the other restaurants, never goes in the other restaurants. In fact, whenever he takes his family out to eat, he brings them to the same restaurant every single time.

What conclusion can we draw from this? I'd say that despite the man's constant assertions he doesn't really like the restaurant he eats at, and his constant reminders of how the other four or five restaurants are as good or better, he is full of shit and thinks the restaurant he eats at all the time is better, regardless of what he says.

Words versus action.

I hear all the time about how much better or how the same other races and cultures are, but it is rare indeed to see any of these people like fzappa indulging much in them. Instead, they are right at the same places and with the same people I am. Anyone with sufficient resources predominately opts for white culture and to live in white neighborhoods and countries. No white with resources even considers sending their kids to a nonwhite school. No white with resources sits down and looks or plans a move into a nonwhite neighborhood.

Everybody knows this.

It just is not considered polite to point it out. Instead, we are supposed to pretend we don't see this.

*******************************

And next time don't forget to end your italics and bolding. You use I and/or B, not [/a].



[Edited 7/6/2009 9:40:12 PM PST]

7/6/2009 9:44:29 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

eroot
Webster City, IA
age: 34


valid observations, though i think an argument could be made for wealth versus poverty.

anyone with means would opt for the best available to those means.

i'd love to live in japan for example, but cannot afford to, so i visit, which i can afford.

additionally, i don't speak japanese to any meaningful degree. i could reduce my life style, and save and plan to move, but i'd still need to learn japanese.

which actually begs the question why don't i?

i'm afraid the answer to that is partly sloth (read: mostly) and partly complacency. i'm well to do for my region.

but i digress.

since i am way off topic anyway, did you notice i failed to close my italics tag and it carried through to your post?

interesting.

to continue on my japan tangent, should i learn to speak japanese, and move, attain employment etc, i wouldn't be able to become a citizen until i live in the country for at least five years. even should my application be accepted, as a am not ethnically nihonjin, there are still aspects of the society closed to me because i am white. literally establishments some times display a "no gaijin" signs.

there is *certainly* a class system at work in japan, as most societies/countries, even ours if we choose to acknowledge it or not. being white leaves me in a very limited capacity, despite financial success.

this may suggest my ethnic background of german and scottish (aka white)doesn't do me any favors in this situation.

since positive attributes of character are not universally associated with being white or non-white, i think it is more accurate you are seeing a correlation between standards of societal behavior and values, and race, not causation.



[Edited 7/6/2009 10:03:47 PM PST]

7/6/2009 9:45:07 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

eroot
Webster City, IA
age: 34


Quote from iconwizard4444:


*******************************

And next time don't forget to end your italics and bolding. You use I and/or B, not [/a].


haha, yes typo, i mentioned that in my reply.

7/7/2009 12:34:32 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

fzappa
Over 2,000 Posts (3,809)
Oklahoma City, OK
age: 52


Quote from eroot:
he didn't ask a question actually, but i think we know what was implied:

Quote from fzappa:
So you ARE a white supremacist then. That explains a lot.....

He is asking you if you are a white supremacist, which would be:

Are you a white supremacist?


Forget it, he's in the closet...he doesn't even appear Aryan...that's the strange thing about it all. But who am I to stress over someone else's flawed egopower trip...

anyway....

Here's Roger Waters (Pink Floyd guy) in Milano..I saw this tour.





[Edited 7/7/2009 12:35:53 AM PST]

7/7/2009 1:33:04 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

goose_01
Anchorage, AK
age: 26


Hey Zappa,

What are these facts of evolution. So far as I know its still called the theory of evolution, becuase it hasn't met the parameters of the scientific facts (observablve, repeatable, etc). So, what are these facts.

7/7/2009 2:13:17 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

eroot
Webster City, IA
age: 34


Quote from goose_01:
Hey Zappa,

What are these facts of evolution. So far as I know its still called the theory of evolution, because it hasn't met the parameters of the scientific facts (observable, repeatable, etc). So, what are these facts.


may people are confused when they see the word 'theory'

the existence of biological evolution is a fact. the theory bit refers to the actual mechanism in which it takes place. while biological scientists consider evolution a fact, based on the scientific method you mention in your post, darwins theory of evolution is an explanation of how biological evolution (fact) happens (theory.) currently it is the best explanation of how biological evolution takes place.

as einsteins theory of gravity replaced newtons, there could very well be a better explanation of how biological evolution happens that someone may develop in the future.

please pay special attention to the second quoted paragraph below:



- Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.



links for further reading and learning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact

http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/theory.htm

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evotheory.html

google for more.

7/7/2009 2:32:25 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

goose_01
Anchorage, AK
age: 26


Stephen Gould....punctuated equilibrium, right? I'm looking more into him and the theory/fact issue now.

So, would you consider secular humanism, which essentially is what evolution would boil down too, that God does not exist, life came from inorganic nature by natural, random means and evolved over billions of years with the ultimate result being man as the the most formidable animal, as a religion? Just curious.



[Edited 7/7/2009 2:35:55 AM PST]

7/7/2009 8:11:03 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

duchessa
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,495)
Yonkers, NY
age: 58


Quote from barbaque:
Theres no thinking allowed in school either .you are to learn what they tell you to learn even if it's not true .


Well, don't be so fast....I teach Spanish & Sp. Literature in a NYC high school; believe me wen I tell you I encourage (as in I demand) my students reason & express their opinions in everything they read...in fact, their oral participation represents the largest part of their grades.
Next September, come and visit one of my classes...You will be amazed.

7/7/2009 8:12:14 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

duchessa
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,495)
Yonkers, NY
age: 58


Quote from ying_n_yang:
if you can teach your values/morals ( or lack of ) to my children
i should be allowed to teach mine to yours ..... or .....

just teach children the 3 r's and leave the rest to the parents !!


I agree...but, unfortunately, many parents believe we -the teachers- also must teach behavior.

7/7/2009 8:16:59 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

duchessa
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,495)
Yonkers, NY
age: 58


walter555

""Why don't you take your religious gibberish to the religion threads where it belongs.""

Because he, like most of them, feel it's his duty to make us see the Truth. They are laughable.

I am an Atheist.



[Edited 7/7/2009 8:43:24 AM PST]

7/7/2009 8:22:38 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

duchessa
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,495)
Yonkers, NY
age: 58


pariah2:

""If you are an atheist...that is you relgion. """"


Atheism is a religion the same boldness is a hair style.



[Edited 7/7/2009 8:36:51 AM PST]

7/7/2009 9:40:22 AMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

eroot
Webster City, IA
age: 34


Quote from goose_01:
Stephen Gould....punctuated equilibrium, right? I'm looking more into him and the theory/fact issue now.

So, would you consider secular humanism, which essentially is what evolution would boil down too, that God does not exist, life came from inorganic nature by natural, random means and evolved over billions of years with the ultimate result being man as the the most formidable animal, as a religion? Just curious.


oh i don't know if the two need to be mutually exclusive, but that's my corner stone; philosophically agnostic.

i like to think there is a supreme being, power greater than self, but i have no way of proving the existence of such, in any meaningful way, or what it is, so i sort of fall into the deist camp there.

i'm not really concerned about particulars.

is secular humanism a religion? not in any way that it should be recognized as such legally, ie. tax exempt status or what have you. there are certainly "true believers" that invest alot of their identity into secular humanism and defend it like the religious defend their religion.

does a religion require a godhead? western religions seems to say they do, but buddhism has no godhead, and we refer to it as a religion.

i suppose i have no ready answer.

7/7/2009 1:15:46 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


For the record, there are some serious problems with Evolution as set forth. The scientific establishment has by a neat irony become the Orthodox Fundamentalist faction here. The controversy is falsely presented as being between scientist and Southern Baptist. This is incorrect. It is true that religious people have used the problems of evolution to booster their own theological claims. (But why shouldn’t they?)

The very first critics of Darwin were not preachers, but rather fossil experts. In the final analysis, and in light of the absence of empirical laboratory confirmation, there is only one place to look for evidence of “descent with modification” and that is the fossil record. This record is the one place to look for confirmation of what actually happened with the origin and development of life on this planet. Even if this origin of life was a one time, non-repeatable occurrence, the method by which it took place should still be found in the fossil record. But it is simply not there.

The claim of an “incomplete” fossil record with “missing gaps” is no longer sustainable. During the last 150 years exhaustive digging and exploration has uncovered literally hundreds of billions of fossils. There are over 100 million fossils of 250,000 species in the world’s museums today. Of 43 living orders of vertebrates, 42, or over 97 percent are found as fossils. Of 329 families of vertebrates, 79 percent are found persevered as fossils. Moreover, when birds, (which fossilize poorly) are factored out, the percent rises to 87. What the evidence shows is clustered variations about the same basic designs showing up time after time, already specialized and complex with no “links” or lines of improvement in between. According to evolution the fossil record was supposed to consist of predominately transitional states, but the record instead shows the opposite. Forms believed to have been descended from previous ancestors turn out to have already been in existence at the supposed time of the ancestors. On average a species persists fundamentally unchanged for over a million years before vanishing, which evidence shows happens nearly all at once in mass extinctions rather than gradual replacement as theorized.

We hear about birdlike creatures being the ancestors of modern birds. For example, Archaeopteryx is theorized to have evolved from a small dinosaur called Compsognathus and is said to prove a “link” between reptiles and birds. However, the consensus among paleontologists is that there are too many structural differences for modern birds to be descended from Archaeopteryx.

We also hear about “lines of horses.” Everyone “knows” about the progress of modern horses developing from a small fox-sized ungulate to the full size modern horse. Everyone “knows” that there was a reduction from four foreleg toes to a hoof. What everyone does not know is that there is far from a consensus between scientist and zoologist about this.

We are told about a “branching tree” and an increase of diversity of life. But the evidence shows instead an “upside down” tree and a decrease in diversity.

We all “know” about the British peppered moth being the outstanding example of living proof of evolution in our own time. But everyone does not know that the genes for both light and dark strains were already present from the beginning. In fact, in some localities the moths turned dark before the tree bark darkened. Moreover, and this is a big something that people don’t know, these moths do not normally rest on tree trunks anyway in daylight. The moths we see in textbooks have been glued on the trees. Furthermore, birds are not a major influence on the moths and thus it turns out the “camouflage” is not necessary for survival.

There is also the problem of what one biologist has called “irreducible complexity.” This is where if one component is removed, the entire complex is rendered useless. The human eye is an example, and the mechanism for blood clotting and the intracellular transport system. This concept is in fact the problem for the Orthodox Evolution community. Their response has been a series of smoke screens and equivocating of words. The truth is they cannot account for it. There is not one single scientific paper on earth that shows how some of these systems, the human eye, for example, could have evolved in the way Darwinism postulates or how they could function with less than all the components.

There is also the problem with “the blind gunman.” The odds of life coming into existence in the way the Evolutionist claim are simply beyond fantastic. Fred Hoyle once calculated the odds were on a par with a solar system full of blind men simultaneously solving Rubik’s Cubes.

There are a number of other problems with current theory, and I have not been able to elaborate on even what I have listed above. But you can do the research yourself, if you are interested.

Now, what we have here is not proof of God or evolution. What we have is a problem that science does not have the answer for at present: the origin of life. The religious argument does not hold up much better than the evolutionist theory because it appears the various forms of life have appeared nearly full blown but at different periods of history, and not like the Genesis account. It even looks as though it happens after some mass disaster. There is more than one possible scenario that could have happened. Unfortunately, at the present we have two competing religions vying for providing an explanation for the development and origin of life.

7/7/2009 1:21:04 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Icon,

Your posts are too long winded.

Why not just write a book?

7/7/2009 1:31:27 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

iconwizard4444
Over 2,000 Posts (2,892)
Burnside, KY
age: 35


Quote from walter555:
Icon,

Your posts are too long winded.

Why not just write a book?


I am well aware, Walter, that you cannot handle more than a one line cliche or a thirty second soundbite. Your posts on here make that clear. What's more, I didn't cite Rush Limbaugh, so I know you are having some difficulty keeping up. But that is not my problem, it is yours.

7/7/2009 1:47:29 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Quote from rightway123:
The division of church and state does not bother me.

It's the separation of the democrats from sanity that's a real danger.


While the Republicans have their leader to follow and obey...




7/7/2009 1:54:53 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

styx62ga2
Over 2,000 Posts (2,850)
Douglasville, GA
age: 47


Walter wants to have sex with Rush

7/7/2009 1:56:19 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 
walter555
Over 2,000 Posts (2,770)
Albuquerque, NM
age: 52


Quote from styx62ga2:
Walter wants to have sex with Rush


I've got a stalker.
Was hoping for one of the attractive ladies on this fine site...


instead


a Southern racist bigot!


Oh well......

7/7/2009 2:02:18 PMDivide church and state - a political current event thread 

acting_out
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,838)
Eagle, CO
age: 46