| 10/23/2009 9:24:48 AM | Homelessness | | droog1
Louisville, KY
age: 52
| I was wondering whether to post this in the "Current Events" section or here in the "Religion" forum, but considering most of the institutions I'd like to talk about are religion based, I figured this was as good a place as any.
I would love your opinions on this subject......
I personallty experienced homelessness here in Louisville approximately a year ago, for five weeks, while trying to find my present job. This is what I found.....
There are a plethora of homeless shelters in this city and more soup kitchens than one can shake a stick at. I stayed at the Salvation Army and my car for the whole time, but had my choice of various shelters and situations. Besides the Salv Army, there is the Wayside Christian Mission, St vincent dePaul, the Healing Place, where men and women can spend nights for free (seperately) up to thirty days. Then they start charging an average of five bucks a night. I had my choice of places to eat during the day, and there was no shortage. The Franciscan day shelter provided awesome hot lunches that were restaurant quality mond thru fri. St Vincent does lunch and dinner every day of the week. A church known as "baloney alley" does lunches every day of the week. Salvation Army does breakfast and dinner every day of the week. Wayside Ch. mission does all three meals every day of the week. All of the above mentioned facilities are within walking distance of each other.
There are two day shelters downtown that cater very well to the homeless. St. Johns is a men's only shelter that gives one all the coffee they can drink 'til 11am, free showers (with their soap and towels) all day, free mail service, and free phone use. Jefferson St. Baptist does the exact same thing except you can do your laundry for free using their soap and equipment. One can get free medical at Phoenix Health Center, so long as you are patient.
There are a few once a week gatherings, the Love Squad church on Mon nights has a service, hands out what toiletries and clothes one might need and feeds great meals and lets you take back whatever they don't use. On Wednesday at noon, green St Baptist serves a lunch where they seat and wait on you. On saturday morning, a church at 4th and Magnolia serves up such a good breakfast they were nicknamed "shoney's". I could really go on, I'm sure there is something I've left out.
The biggest controversy at the moment down here is this....the Wayside Christian Mission spent 10 million bucks last May buying out the Holiday Inn downtown to turn into a shelter for women and families. This is a twelve story facility with restaurant, swimming pool, and 210 rooms. If they open, it will be the largest homeless shelter in the country. The city of Louisville is fighting like mad to see that this facility does not open and I can understand why. I forget the senators name, but one is trying to get this situation overturned by asking the college across the street from this property to exercise eminent domain status and use the property for student parking. This property is located on the Louisville main drag and, imho, will destroy business on these city blocks and make things very difficult for the college across the street, with violence and drug related incidents which goes hand in hand with shelters. It amazed me that wayside could even come up with ten mil much less think that this is a good situation for everyone involved.
My question to everyone is this......where does helping the poor end and making things too easy for homeless people begin? Is this more of a hand out instead of a hand up? What are things like in your sections of the country? Is it this easy to live on the streets or are facilities elsewhere comparable?
| | 10/23/2009 9:31:34 AM | Homelessness | | 
no_doubt_delish
Beaumont, CA
age: 34
| Many people who are homeless are mentally ill and cannot work. But it is so hard to prove that you are mentally ill to get needed benefits. So they fall through the cracks and that means they become homeless. It is our duty as citizens to take care of our own. One way in taking pride in your country is to make sure every citizen is taken care of. Do we want to be known as a country who lets people live on the street and eat out of trashcans? Or do we want to be known as a compassionate country who values every citizen. So many people have disadvantages from birth. They dont have all of the fortunes many of us have. Most of us have a head start. We had loving parents, 3 meals a day, confidence and self esteem, worth. Many children feel worthless and grow up in abused homes, if they have a home at all. This makes their self esteem non-existent and creates a person who often cannot function among regular society. They struggle and cant do what you and I may be able to do. So not only have their parents let them down, but society has let them down. Accommodations need to be made. Part-time work with supplements. They need to feel like people again. We spit on them or dont even acknowledge them. That is wrong. If we build them up and help them through support and give them what their parents didnt, they may have hope. But if we continue to shut them out, they feel hopeless and have given up all hope.
| | 10/23/2009 11:01:40 AM | Homelessness | | droog1
Louisville, KY
age: 52
| But at least sixty percent of the people I came into contact with get these "crazy checks" of at least six hundred a month and change and within TWELVE hours have every cent of it burned on crack.
Out of everyone I met on the street, there was a very low percentage of people who were trying to change their lifestyle for the better. (i.e. look for legitimate work) I watched people panhandle left and right in downtown louisville for no other reason than to snag beer money.
Thanks for that above post Delish, and you are right about taking care of our poor in this country. But this situation lends itself open to abuse too much, imho.
The Wayside Christian Mission that bought up the holiday Inn has a reputation as being a profitable business that does nothing but warehouse people and make money off of homelessness. The owner is notorious for making a very good wage (millions) from his shelters.
| | 10/23/2009 6:02:46 PM | Homelessness | | 
trippy_hare
Arvada, CO
age: 27
| Here in Denver, there isn't a whole lot in the way of shelters. The Denver Rescue Mission and Salvy Army have a couple, and I know a few catholic churches that do soup kitchen work, but that's about it. Denver's homeless problems were dramatically lessened after legislation prohibiting "aggressive panhandling" was passed. I used to get accosted while on campus at my university- which is also right square in the middle of downtown, and about a mile from a shelter- and now, there's just the bums sitting on exit ramps off the highway, with signs asking for change.
Frankly, the anti-aggro-panhandling laws did a WORLD of good here. There's a city just north of Denver- Greeley- that is one of the stops on my route, and I've been hassled by more homeless there than in Denver- and Greeley is nowhere even CLOSE to the size of Denver.
As far as dealing with homeless goes- if I have change, which is rare, I'll give them some coin. If not, I say "Sorry, I don't have any,", and walk away. If they get uppity, I say "I could call the police for you. Maybe they have some change."
| | 10/23/2009 8:52:49 PM | Homelessness | | 
sharenlove
Fort Wayne, IN
age: 54
| For some, it's a 'hand up' and for others, it's a 'hand out'. For some, it's
'emertgency support' in their time of need and for others, it has become a 'way of life'.
Until people step up and create a workable plan, it will keep getting shoved to the back political burner and will get 'more out of control' every day.
Either way, the solution has to start with the man in the mirror.
| | 10/23/2009 10:11:09 PM | Homelessness | | blowtorchbabe
Tulsa, OK
age: 59
| People seem to have lost the idea about what Christianity is. It's not dressing up and going to church on Sunday morning. It's about loving and caring for those who are in need, holding our hands out to them in love.
35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
Matthew 25:35-40 (New American Standard)
So what role does Christianity play? What responsibility do we have to care for those in need?
I think that scripture makes it pretty clear. Who are we to judge why or how people get into the situations they're in? I would rather give, and have some of it go to those who don't "deserve" it, than to NOT give and have someone be in need when I have an abundance.
[Edited 10/23/2009 10:11:57 PM PST]
| | 10/24/2009 6:31:29 AM | Homelessness | | passionsastirin
Pompano Beach, FL
age: 42
| People seem to have lost the idea about what Christianity is. It's not dressing up and going to church on Sunday morning. It's about loving and caring for those who are in need, holding our hands out to them in love.
35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
Matthew 25:35-40 (New American Standard)
So what role does Christianity play? What responsibility do we have to care for those in need?
I think that scripture makes it pretty clear. Who are we to judge why or how people get into the situations they're in? I would rather give, and have some of it go to those who don't "deserve" it, than to NOT give and have someone be in need when I have an abundance.
Amen! I totally agree!
GOD bless the Wayside Church. Shame on the people that are giving them a hard time, rather than praising them.
The OP says that he took that help that was offered, but, he wants to oppose the women and children getting the help.
He wants to be one of those that says that they are no good--nothing but junkies. Yet he says that he was one of them, but, he is different.
The homeless people in other cities are not as well off.
| | 10/24/2009 8:03:52 AM | Homelessness | | 
dunrich2
Brantford, ON
age: 55 online now!
| We have a similar situation in Toronto. The womans YWCA runs a complex that is always in the news. Many drug gangs, hookers, crack addicts take it over and make it a living hell for not just the woman needing that shelter so badly to escape abuse, but also legitimate business nehibours.
But, I cannot understand there being a controversey. The concept is rightous and good. Its a worthy cause, woman and children need shelters like this. So, saying no to it is just not an option.
The answer then? Have Police there full time is all. Heck they get 50 calls a day anyway.The answer is not whether it should be there or not, but the affect it has. So, you deal with the ones misuing it, not deny the service for those that do use it properly.
Heck, it would avse money from the Police Budget I would think. Why have Cops out driving around in a spread out area looking for criminals, when they congest on one scene?
Then again, I am a big advocate of putting more Cops back on the beat. I have an Uncle, who started hating his job as a Cop back in the early 60`s when to make them more mobile he was froced into patrol Cars.
Prior to that, he got to know every one on his beat. The harmless home less ones who just wanted a hot tea or coffee. The criminals and stuff. 6 months after in the Car though, he says he lost track and crime in that area went up a lot.
Mental illness as mentioned is a huge factor in homelessness, also like my self, when starting anew job I lived in my Car a couple times. Its a fact of our society. So we need to deal with it. Help out.
| | 10/24/2009 8:37:06 AM | Homelessness | | passionsastirin
Pompano Beach, FL
age: 42
| The homeless are just like anyone else. Infact, some of us have been homeless. Junkies, crazy people, and, prostitutes are amongst them, but, they are a small minority. I lived in a van, when I was in between jobs.
| | 10/24/2009 8:46:34 AM | Homelessness | |
dunrich2
Brantford, ON
age: 55 online now!
| When I lived up North I worked out of town a lot and lived in this 76 Ford Econolne , lol, it was comfortable . It broke down once though, and had to use my Jeep for a couple of months,lived in it Mon thru Fri, kids were young and coudlnt afford to fix the Van.
That was another story! My back is still sore from that.
| | 10/24/2009 1:08:10 PM | Homelessness | | 
yesurafiki
Central Village, CT
age: 42
| I don't think anyone would ever choose to be homeless.
I believe we should help homeless people wherever and for however long it's necessary. Just giving someone food or shelter is handout. Helping them find a solution to their situation along with the necessities until they can do it on their own is a hand up.
In my corner of the world, there are not enough shelters for the homeless. A big part of homelessness is mental illness. Alot of the time someone with mental illness will not/cannot agree to treatment, so then a handout may be all we can do. In which case, I think we should provide them a handout....it's the same for taking care of anyone who is sick.
| | 10/24/2009 1:14:08 PM | Homelessness | |
dunrich2
Brantford, ON
age: 55 online now!
| Alot of the time someone with mental illness will not/cannot agree to treatment, so then a handout may be all we can do. In which case, I think we should provide them a handout....it's the same for taking care of anyone who is sick
I agree completly. We live in a Society where we spend millions on frivolity like susidzing eduction to turn out Cosmetic Surgery Doctors( not refrring to burn patients , etc here), porn, all sorts of stuff.
There is no reason the basics of ilfe can not be supplied for those that need help.
[Edited 10/24/2009 1:14:45 PM PST]
| | 10/24/2009 2:04:58 PM | Homelessness | | 
woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 56
| count me in on that one Dunn, as I've worked hard all my life and in June of this year I found myself and my dogs sooooooooooooo close to being homeless, in spite of all that hard work, that I was considering callin up the the local appliance store for their used cardboard crates !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some humor intended there, but seriously if my prayers hadn't been heard, which connected me with just the right renter and friend,with no place to go, and willing to pay a year's lease in advance ( her idea) I believe, I would be homeless, or having to care for my younger brother for shelter. Which was an option , but not my favorite one, as I would be a maid. I'm a musician and a seamstress,so right where I am must be the place for me, as I consider it nothing short of answer to my prayers, and makes it possible for me to pass it on by feeding people communally for the good of the whole.
It was a real threat, and is to many people out there whether we think they deserve it or not! We aren't to make that judgement, we are however, commanded to love our bro, as our self, and that includes our enemies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | 10/24/2009 9:37:56 PM | Homelessness | | scorpiomover
London
United Kingdom
age: 40
| My question to everyone is this......where does helping the poor end and making things too easy for homeless people begin? Usually, it never gets that easy for homeless people. Most have some form of mental illness. Many are dealing with alcohol or drug addiction, or both. Many women are coming from a sexually abusive home, or are victims of domestic violence, and would rather stay on the streets than go back to the hell they were living in. Even when they do get help, they aren't getting the help they need, anyway.
Is this more of a hand out instead of a hand up? For most, it's a hand up. For many homeless people, a soup kitchen is the only meal they'll get that day. For many, a shelter is a horrible place to stay, because many in the shelter are still addicted to drugs and violent behaviour. Many have strict rules. One I know will turf you out at 8am. Then, if you don't manage to stand in line and get a place before 4pm, they shut the doors and you're stuck on the streets. Even the ones with regular placements have curfews and all sorts of rules, rules that you'd consider a gross denial of freedom, even to kids. 99% of these people would much rather get their own place to stay, have enough money to buy food.
Most would much rather get a good-paying job, because they'll have a lot more money and freedom, and safety. Some so addicted to alcohol, that even shelters and soup kitchens cannot handle them. We saw them talking to cars across the street. Some are so mentally ill, that they get paranoid in their own flat, and would rather be homeless. I personally know 2 homeless people who have plenty of money in the bank, but have such paranoia from severe mental problems, that they choose to sleep on the streets. Some are over retirement age, and have no hope of getting a job, and only stay in shelters because they have nowhere else to live, and no expectation that will ever change.
But all the homeless people I know, who are still at an age where they are able to find work, and are not constantly drunk, and are not completely paranoid, are all totally committed to getting work ASAP. It's just that they are in very difficult situations which make them currently incapable of holding down a job.
I knew one guy who got kicked out of work, and as soon as he had temporary accomodation, found work.
Another was a young guy who got a girlfriend, who moved in with her in her parents' home, and immediately got a job working 5 days a week with her uncle.
Another guy I know just did some voluntary work with a company. When he finished the placement, the manager told him that whenever he wants to, they have a job waiting for him. But he found 4 hours a day 3 days a week as much as he could handle after being out of work for so long. So he's hoping that he can arrange to start off working for 12 hours a week, and work his way up to full-time.
Another guy I know used to be a welder on oil rigs. But he broke his back in 2 places, and would fail the medical. He is still in immense pain, so much that he cannot hold down proper work. He is trying to get a business going on a website.
I'd like to say that most of the homeless I know are just shifters. But that's just not the case at all. I'd be very hard put to find anyone who used to be homeless, who isn't out there looking for work, and who isn't an old-age pensioner, and isn't racked with severe mental problems and/or severe physical problems that make them unable to hold down a job.
But you are right about one thing: there is so little help out there for the homeless, and so little support and encouragement for them, that a lot of the time, what they get is not a hand up at all, but just a hand out to tide them over till next month.
What are things like in your sections of the country? Very bad. There are lots more homeless people than shelters and soup kitchens. In the center of the city, where the rich work, many were even forced to close down. Plus, they really have to fight for funding. I know lots of people who have spent months sleeping rough on the streets, and a good few who have been on the streets for years.
Is it this easy to live on the streets or are facilities elsewhere comparable? I knew a good few who died on the streets. One day, they would be at the local soup kitchen. Then I hadn't seen them for a few days, asked others who knew them where they were, and were told they'd died, just like that. This has happened a few times with people I knew and got on with.
| | 10/24/2009 9:56:03 PM | Homelessness | | 
sandra49ok
Shelton, WA
age: 50
| People seem to have lost the idea about what Christianity is. It's not dressing up and going to church on Sunday morning. It's about loving and caring for those who are in need, holding our hands out to them in love.
35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
Matthew 25:35-40 (New American Standard)
So what role does Christianity play? What responsibility do we have to care for those in need?
I think that scripture makes it pretty clear. Who are we to judge why or how people get into the situations they're in? I would rather give, and have some of it go to those who don't "deserve" it, than to NOT give and have someone be in need when I have an abundance.
| | 10/25/2009 6:50:27 AM | Homelessness | |
dunrich2
Brantford, ON
age: 55 online now!
| A Gallup poll reported last year that although most Americans feel compassion
for homeless men and women they encounter on the street, many are puzzled,
not knowing how to react to this growing problem that seemed to emerge out of
nowhere.
I think there is another reason as well. Many, are only 1 or 2 pay cheques thems selves from being homeless. lets face it, very few with family, alimony/ support payments , have many savings sitting in the bank. They are well aware as well, that not many middle class jobs and salaries are around now days.
Maybe many are uncomfortable as they know the possibility of their own himelessness might be right around the corner?
Its a probme that trancends all of the Political parties as well.Years ago, I was on the Non Profit housing board in a northen Ontario Community. We elected in a very left wing Governmnet. I remember thinking, well on the bright side , my job there is going to be easier. Far from the truth though.
Yes, our budget went up a lot, almost doubled. But the standards we had to follow, meant less people could be helped rtaher than more. Children could not share bed rooms with siblings. So a family of 5, we had to build them a 4 bed room unit. So in the end, instead of being able to build 5 town homes, we ended up with 3 or 4 only.
I wont get into the other ridiculous standards. It took double the money to assist half the people was the end result. So, I think there are other reasons why we are uncomfortable looking at the homeless. It makes us feel helpless. No one seems to have a permament soloution to the problem.
In the mean time, I dont see how we can possibly not do what we can.There should be no question about it I think.
| | 10/25/2009 8:02:06 AM | Homelessness | |
woodsmamma
Winton, MN
age: 56
| Yes , Dunn, I agree, and If our churches were really serving the people, we would need no welfare system. If we were all loving our bros and sis' as our selves (including our enemies or those we might deem unworthy) we would not tolerate
this compassionless situation. I for one am saved by my prayers, and the ones who heard them. We are not the judge of who should be helped, but every breathing sentient being is worthy of being helped.No matter what, we aren't to judge, in fact we will be the ones to be judged for our lack of compassion for another who suffers!!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited 10/25/2009 8:27:51 AM PST]
| | 10/26/2009 9:53:33 AM | Homelessness | | droog1
Louisville, KY
age: 52
| Amen! I totally agree!
GOD bless the Wayside Church. Shame on the people that are giving them a hard time, rather than praising them.
The OP says that he took that help that was offered, but, he wants to oppose the women and children getting the help.
He wants to be one of those that says that they are no good--nothing but junkies. Yet he says that he was one of them, but, he is different.
The homeless people in other cities are not as well off.
My apologies passion if i made it out to sound as though I was opposed to people getting help in a situation i found myself in. I most certainly am not. The people who run most of these shelters and kitchens are some of the most admirable I have met. But the Wayside Christian Mission is different. They are not a church. They do not own a church bulding, conduct services, have a flock, hire pastors. They are a for profit organization that buys up property to warehouse people to the tune of millions of dollars in salary to the owner.
Passion, this "Mission" has a reputation in this city for keeping people ON the streets so the owners can keep their influx of profit yearly. I am absolutey unopposed to people, especially women and children, recieving the necessary help they need, but this Holiday Inn/womens shelter will do more harm than good to the people who will reside there and this downtown community at large.
I don't remember who the poster was, but someone mentioned that the addict population is in the minority on the streets. My experience was just the opposite. I ran into more people who were doing everything they could just for that next hit, drink, or whatever. In this city, it is definitely the majority of our homeless who are addicted to something, be it crack or alcohol. At the beginning of the month, the lines at these food pantries are short and these shelters are only about half full, because the majority would get a monthly check, and within the next three days the shelters were full again and the lines were long.
Brave, no man, I didn't enjoy my experience on the streets at all, but I was surprised to see how easy it was. I knew I could survive on the streets, but I didn't think I could LIVE as easily as I did. The ONLY thing missing in this town is a brothel that caters to the homeless.
For whatever it is worth, I still spend a day or so downtown every couple of months just to remind myself of where I was. I'll see people I used to hang with out here still, a year later, I can't imagine spending that much time outside.
\
Also got hired part time as a Salvation Army bell ringer for a couple of months. Not a volunteer situation, I will get paid, but I do feel as though I owe the streets something.
| | 10/27/2009 5:45:02 AM | Homelessness | | jonsey61
Pipestone, MN
age: 48
| I do agree we should help people in need, I believe the church should help the people not a welfare system, It is sad in this country to see people homeless when we are a rich nation, and no excuse to help them,
It is only going to get worse the jobs are not there, I don't see many being created, most of the factory jobs are over seas they will never come back.
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