| 5/5/2008 1:19:46 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | johnterry
Grafton, WV
age: 45
| General response with a "face" to all sides of this subject:
Beleif is not fact. Fact is not belief. Beleive can not ever be proven to be a Fact.
Logic is a questionable subject with information obtained proven to be true, until more information is obtained proven to be false until more information is obtained proven to be true and so forth. Forever being lacking in knowledge makes logic a constant changing thing. The more we learn, the more we change. The more we can see something, the more we can decide on it's +/- value or True/False locgic. Call "Science"
Belief is rumor, ledgend, and/or of stories told with absolutely no way to prove it's supporting informational sources. The witness is no longer available for an interview.
(A Contradiction)Believing in and trust in the words written by someone who has since been long dead and gone. But won't believe in someone who is alive with out them first having to prove themselves to be trusted but never to be believed in.(Standing on both side of the fence at the same time.)
Man servives not on beliefs, belies will never ever sustain life. Fact.
Man survives on what he/she can comsume to sustain life. Fact.
Man can never consume beliefs, they are of absolutely no substance. Fact.
Beliefs are simply a reason for debat, diferences, and for creating conflick. History has proven this at to be Fact.
Choice is a logical function. Fact. It is a function of which man is the only animal capable of performing. Fact.
Poses a question concerning logic as well a belief: Why does always man choose conflict over harmony? FACT.
| | 5/5/2008 1:26:53 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | johnterry
Grafton, WV
age: 45
| If we were to choose harmoney over conflict, then we would be saying that, we do not believe in something as one, we acknoledge the fact that by not choosing harmony, we are domed to constant conflict. So, what do we do? We choose to stick to our beliefs and ignor the fact standing before us and say, we perfer conflict.
Love you all see ya...
| | 5/6/2008 6:10:40 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | 
burnkitty
Fayetteville, AR
age: 33
| I have noticed a trend, not only when I had believed in a Christian god as a religion of my own, but even when I left it behind me on my quest for data collection. Was there truly a god? Is there any way one can show me this for a fact..? Then, I had found, there was no such evidence that was not debatable from another perspective. And from this end, I had again found the same trend...
Some(not all mind you)Christians claim that they do not have a "religion". The claim was that religions were man-made constructs and they were exempt from this. One may call it "having a relationship with Christ" or with "god". No matter what the wording, they considered themselves outside of this concept.
Back when I did the unquestioning Christian thing, I still didn't believe this viewpoint contained any validation. The book definition covers even those individuals no matter how they wished to be viewed. Basically, the word means your system of belief in a god, gods, or the supernatural. If they believe their god is good(and Christians tend to believe so), then they have a system of belief. Ergo, they have a religion.
I believe this viewpoint stems from pride rather than thought. These particular people just don't want to be put in the same catagory as "those religious types". This seems like a useless goal to me because there is no shame in the word religion. No shame is brought about in admitting one has a religion. I try not to dismiss people who share this idea, but I find this concept most illogical. Still, your thoughts?
| | 5/6/2008 6:19:45 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | jrbogie
Red Bluff, CA
age: 59
| Not a matter of dismissing them kitty. Still have to decide who makes sense and who doesn't.
| | 5/6/2008 6:21:03 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | 
lust4love
Atco, NJ
age: 38
| Never trust god with your money.
| | 5/6/2008 6:28:37 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | jrbogie
Red Bluff, CA
age: 59
| Before ya know it, he'll be all over it.
| | 5/6/2008 7:59:38 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | skunkbreath
Saint James, MO
age: 89
| "I believe this viewpoint stems from pride rather than thought. These particular people just don't want to be put in the same category as "those religious types". This seems like a useless goal to me because there is no shame in the word religion. No shame is brought about in admitting one has a religion. I try not to dismiss people who share this idea, but I find this concept most illogical."
burn, good points!
Yes, pride is manifest in many ways by christians.But, they sincerely believe that they are logical and rational, not being able to see that their particular personality with it's coping mechanisms (beliefs) contaminates their thinking.
And i see their distancing themselves from "religion" as more than pride, but a subconscious distancing from the even more outrageous beliefs, in their eyes, of some religions and the horrific history of religion.
There is a shamefulness to being part of and supporting an institution that is so corrupt and perverse as christianity. One could hold to many of the principles that christianity teaches and not be a part of and be manipulated by the dogma.But, what i call irresponsibility of shifting control to a god comes into play and they are taught that the change in their life is because of a spirit and not a natural phenomenon of mind/consciousness being activated by their own desires. Of course this mechanism could be described as spirit, and many people have used the term in that way, an unseen force working within creation to effect mental and or the physical.
And since they probably led an irresponsible life before conversion, by shifting the responsibility to satan or god relieves them of that. It is a type of infantilism except, for most, without the diapers. Many seem to take pride in proclaiming what a sinner they are, showing their false humility as they refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
| | 5/6/2008 3:01:12 PM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | kay46
Quitaque, TX
age: 47
| skunk, i dont know what has happened to you in the past to turn you against religion. but i do know by reading your posts, that you want christians to loose faith in religion, God, and Jesus. you are adamant in saying that there is no God etc and that Christians won't accept responsibility for themselves. I think thats a general statement for people of every persuasion, Christian, atheist etc. Many people do not accept responsiblity for what they do, they blame others. I have cared for several non-christian people in my line of work, i loved them just as much as i loved anyone. I treated them with respect and dignity, and yes i believe in heaven and hell so i would never want someone to go to hell, whether they believed it or not, I do. Why are you so intent on trying to change a persons mind about heaven and hell?
you are an intelligent person, i can tell by your writings and posts, but your adamant ways of telling others where they are wrong, maybe you are wrong. either way, when we die, we SHALL find out shan't we. we disagree, thats called free will.
to me it is not an insult to say God bless you. If a person believes in God and says that to you, that should be taken as it was said, with respect and best wishes for that person. I dont take it wrong when my muslim M.D. talks about his religion and how he feels about God and Jesus. We disagree, but we each wish each other well in each of our religion as a good faith to each other. I had a atheist friend named Leslie and we were friends for years. We definetly did not agree about religion but we did agree on so many other things and we got along well. she was a wonderful social worker in the school system and her husband was an ER nurse.
peace to all
| | 5/8/2008 3:48:07 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | |
burnkitty
Fayetteville, AR
age: 33
| The concept on a reward system...
It seems to me that a reward is offered within religions for obedience, or mayhaps in other cases, threats. An afterlife is jocked as such. Sometimes this even means the threat of a "hell", some plane of existence where you are eternally punished. Other reward systems include some sort of pact, an agreement of prosperity between one or many people and their respective deity(ies).
It is thus that my view of religions are pondered. Consider if you will, all religions one may adhere to altered in one way: There is absolutely no reward to be had save for self satisfaction. No afterlife, no eternal punishment(or any outside of our own self-made justice systems), and no pact to be kept. Now let us review these same religions...
Would you, knowing you had nothing to gain, still follow your own(or any, if not applicable)religion? If you would still follow on this path, then you'd be doing it for the right reasons. But then why have this religion per say? One could just as easily come up with a set of personal standards they believed to be correct without the advent of religious literature. One may even make a system based off of Asobe's Fables if they so desired, and why not?
The teaching of principles, whether scripture or self-help/history book, varies in only one way: With religion, you are rewarded beyond "doing the right thing". Is there more to it than this? If not, then religion is most disenchanting. Those holding a religion, what would make you wish to continue on with a religion without reward?
| | 5/8/2008 4:47:33 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | mommaloma
Searcy, AR
age: 34
| Those holding a religion, what would make you wish to continue on with a religion without reward?
Very interesting question, Burn, I would like to see some answers on that also.
| | 5/8/2008 4:58:21 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | |
lust4love
Atco, NJ
age: 38
| Those holding a religion, what would make you wish to continue on with a religion without reward?
There is always a reward for followers of any religion. Acceptance,unity and spirtual awarness.those are the major ones along with social events that help bond church or temple members.i myself am an athiest.
| | 5/8/2008 6:30:20 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | |
burnkitty
Fayetteville, AR
age: 33
| But all the aforementioned are acheiveable without a religion. What would be the reward in your examples received that they couldn't create for themselves?
| | 5/8/2008 6:36:59 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | |
lust4love
Atco, NJ
age: 38
| I dont know which religion you mean in particular but each has its pros and cons. the bible for instance give some knowledge and moralistic thought.Its a good guide of morals if anything.although some of its values are a little twisted.
[Edited 5/8/2008 8:20:18 AM]
| | 5/8/2008 8:20:23 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | jrbogie
Red Bluff, CA
age: 59
| But the basic primise of morals derived from the bible is the golden rule. Doing unto others as I would have them do unto me is very simple common sense. And it was so long before it was called "the golden rule" or any religious scripture. I agree with kitty, everything good in religion can be found elsewhere and you don't have to accept belief in the supernatural.
| | 5/8/2008 9:04:45 AM | Insight into the "religious" mind | | skunkbreath
Saint James, MO
age: 89
| burn, do you assume that all people can think at your level?
Most people in the world do not have the time nor the research material to consider anything beyond daily rituals of existence. It is much easier to go along with whatever is offered as a belief system, whether it is all accepted or not.If church authorities say that there is reward or punishment that is all of the assurance that is needed.There is no provable certainty on either side, it comes down to complex emotional, intellectual, and physical needs that few are aware of.
Those who can rationally come to a conclusion outside of the influence of superstition do not exist. The most logical minds have been so influenced. And it appears that the human mind has to struggle to get away from superstition.It is part of evolution.
Reward and punishment? There are subtle rewards and punishments that we are not aware of in ourselves, and many of those are compromises with elements of each.
And what would be the underlying reward for one person would not be for another. The desperate reach for a heaven or escape from torment of hell is the outward manifestation of deeper terror. The whole religious scene is a coping mechanism which served a purpose, but is slowly being replaced by others.
Some people can cope using logic and rational thought, many can not. Those who can, gain the same peace (reward) as those who turn to superstition.
The superstitious reinforce that (peace) with additional reward after life and arrogant pride of exclusivity during life.
If you are looking for reasons for believing that seem reasonable to you, then you probably will not find many. Superstition seems reasonable to the religious mind and for the rational mind an understanding of that is as close to reason for belief as they will get.
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