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| 5/27/2008 2:17:24 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | | 
jrbogie
Cool, CA
age: 59
| The only way to dismiss the historical evidence is to simply be disinterested or to ignore it.
Regarding the delusion of religion, either works for me.
[Edited 5/27/2008 2:18:41 PM]
| | 5/27/2008 4:21:05 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | | 
leadingman1
Lake Dallas, TX
age: 18
| Einstein had normal human peculiarities, but also quoted “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
I enjoy science as well so I can certainly appreciate the skepticism. I think I will end with this interesting thought for some amusement…
Dr. Robert Jastrow is a theoretical physicist who joined NASA when it was formed in 1958. Jastrow helped establish the scientific goals for the exploration of the moon during the Apollo lunar landings. He set up and directed NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, which conducts research in astronomy and planetary science. After pondering the evidence for a designer's fingerprints in the origin of the universe, Jastrow wrote these thoughts.
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
| | 5/27/2008 4:28:41 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | | 
classicsfan
Charlottetown, PE
age: 51
| The only way to dismiss the historical evidence is to simply be disinterested or to ignore it.
Pilate required verification that Jesus was dead before his burial and a Roman guard thrust a spear into Jesus' side just to be certain. Roman guards next sealed the tomb, and secured it with a 24-hour watch. Despite all of this, He later appeared alive to more than 500 people.
Words from one book that was written to promote a particular objective does not make historical evidence. When stacked up against external evidence, the bible is shown to be a very poor historical record.
The historical evidence for the existence of a preacher from Judea named Jesus is virtually non-existent outside of the bible. To dismiss this is to simply be disinterested or to ignore it.
| | 5/27/2008 4:48:35 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
leadingman1
Lake Dallas, TX
age: 18
| Classics - This is a copy of my earlier post. As you know, history is deafening when it comes to any dispute regarding Jesus' existence. It’s not really rational to believe that Roman and Jewish leaders, or any agnostic person at the time would have passed on the oppty to disclaim Jesus considering his popularity at the time.
One place to find accurate information is in the reports of non-Christian historians from around the time Jesus lived. Three of these historians mentioned the death of Jesus.
Lucian (c.120–after 180 A.D. referred to Jesus as a crucified sophist (philosopher)
Josephus (c.37–c.100 A.D.) wrote, “At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, for he was a doer of amazing deeds. When Pilate condemned him to the cross, the leading men among us, having accused him, those who loved him did not cease to do so.
Tacitus (c. 56–c.120 A.D.) wrote, “Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty - at the hands of our procurator, Pontius Pilate.”
This is a bit like going into the archives and finding in the first century, The Jerusalem Post ran a front-page story saying that Jesus was crucified and dead - fairly conclusive.
| | 5/27/2008 4:58:17 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
classicsfan
Charlottetown, PE
age: 51
| Classics - This is a copy of my earlier post. As you know, history is deafening when it comes to any dispute regarding Jesus' existence. It’s not really rational to believe that Roman and Jewish leaders, or any agnostic person at the time would have passed on the oppty to disclaim Jesus considering his popularity at the time.
One place to find accurate information is in the reports of non-Christian historians from around the time Jesus lived. Three of these historians mentioned the death of Jesus.
Lucian (c.120–after 180 A.D. referred to Jesus as a crucified sophist (philosopher)
Josephus (c.37–c.100 A.D.) wrote, “At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, for he was a doer of amazing deeds. When Pilate condemned him to the cross, the leading men among us, having accused him, those who loved him did not cease to do so.
Tacitus (c. 56–c.120 A.D.) wrote, “Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty - at the hands of our procurator, Pontius Pilate.”
This is a bit like going into the archives and finding in the first century, The Jerusalem Post ran a front-page story saying that Jesus was crucified and dead - fairly conclusive.
Actually, it is not at all like reading a newspaper written that day something happened. None of these people were writing well after the time described in the bible. Jesus was not very well known in his own time. It was only after Saul had his conversion and started spreading his version around that there was any widespread conversions. Even according to the bible, he never met Jesus himself.
The Romans, like the Egyptians and Phoenicians before them were meticulous record keepers. They certainly kept track of any local events that might provide any sort of threat.
No, the evidence for his existence is woefully thin.
| | 5/27/2008 7:28:16 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
leadingman1
Lake Dallas, TX
age: 18
| I’m not sure it is very realistic to think that the Romans and Jewish leaders did not know Jesus very well. Regardless, following widespread news, the story still didn’t change and nobody at the time refuted his existence or death which was around 30 - 33 A.D.
Apostle Paul wrote (1 Corinthians 15:6ff.) around 54 A.D. that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive.
Most historian consensus, is that the Gospel accounts give us a clear picture of Jesus Christ.
PS - Thanks for interesting chat all, but time for me to rejoin the dating site part. This can become addicting.
[Edited 5/28/2008 12:22:02 AM]
| | 5/27/2008 7:42:15 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | | 
nwgrown
White City, OR
age: 55
| I’m not sure it is very realistic to think that the Romans and Jewish leaders did not know Jesus very well. Regardless, following widespread news, the story still didn’t change and nobody at the time refuted his existence or death which was around 30 and 33 A.D.
Apostle Paul wrote (1 Corinthians 15:6ff.) that over 500 people had seen the risen Jesus and that most of them were still alive.
Most historian consensus, is that the Gospel accounts give us a clear picture of Jesus Christ.
PS - Thanks for interesting chat all, but time for me to rejoin the dating site part. This can become addicting.
You are right, it is not only unrealistic but it is not true, period. Jesus was extremely well known even though they didn't have all the "hi tech" crap we have today, word spread quickly in those 3 short years. Plus the fact that the prophets like Isaiah had fortold His coming. They knew Him alright. They were just stupid enough to think they could kill the Christ. But they tried, they gave it their all that's for sure. They had used and abused God's Word(Old Testament)for selfish gain. They were as John called them, vipers. They had no love in them, they were legends in their own mind. Fools, who shrunk back when Jesus spoke, slithered away into their dark existence. They hated the Light, Jesus.
I love Him and would have no life at all if it were not for Him
| | 5/28/2008 3:48:30 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
classicsfan
Charlottetown, PE
age: 51
| No refuted his existence because it was a non-issue. Even if he did exist, the movement was too small during his lifetime to attract the attention of the authorities. Even if we accept the bible accounts, Paul was not around. Any information he would have would be second hand at best.
| | 5/28/2008 8:31:31 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | | 
lees224
Cohoes, NY
age: 50 online now!
| 20 centuries later his story is still going strong,,,and still is number one..   
| | 5/28/2008 8:31:44 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
nwgrown
White City, OR
age: 55
| No refuted his existence because it was a non-issue. Even if he did exist, the movement was too small during his lifetime to attract the attention of the authorities. Even if we accept the bible accounts, Paul was not around. Any information he would have would be second hand at best.
Yes, I guess 5000 people following Him around wouldn't make a very big splash would it
| | 5/28/2008 9:42:36 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | | 
dana1956
New Braunfels, TX
age: 51
| No refuted his existence because it was a non-issue. Even if he did exist, the movement was too small during his lifetime to attract the attention of the authorities. Even if we accept the bible accounts, Paul was not around. Any information he would have would be second hand at best.
Classics,
you have hit the nail right on the head... second hand information... may I suggest you seek first hand knowledge, ask and ask until answered
A ask and it shall be given
S seek and ye shall find
K knock and it shall be opened unto you
you see my fellow human there is an experience that goes with accepting Jesus as being the Son of God that goes beyond what anyone can fully describe. It is those who you might see here who some find fanatical but in all truth they have found something that they would love to share. I am one of those not ashamed to say I believe Jesus is the Son of God and is the only way to get to Heaven. So I wonder who would feel worse at our final day, the one who would never believe or the one who never made the attempt to give you the choice to believe.
see fear in Saul upon the visit from Jesus... yes Saul/Paul KNEW Jesus, but His visit came after Jesus had ascended. Now I must say that for a man to go from a killer to apostle, well something must have happened.
oh yeah I have heard it many times, just a book, written by man, yada yada yada
really want to know
A S K only the truth will set you free
| | 5/28/2008 9:58:36 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
nwgrown
White City, OR
age: 55
| No refuted his existence because it was a non-issue. Even if he did exist, the movement was too small during his lifetime to attract the attention of the authorities. Even if we accept the bible accounts, Paul was not around. Any information he would have would be second hand at best.
Classics,
you have hit the nail right on the head... second hand information... may I suggest you seek first hand knowledge, ask and ask until answered
A ask and it shall be given
S seek and ye shall find
K knock and it shall be opened unto you
you see my fellow human there is an experience that goes with accepting Jesus as being the Son of God that goes beyond what anyone can fully describe. It is those who you might see here who some find fanatical but in all truth they have found something that they would love to share. I am one of those not ashamed to say I believe Jesus is the Son of God and is the only way to get to Heaven. So I wonder who would feel worse at our final day, the one who would never believe or the one who never made the attempt to give you the choice to believe.
see fear in Saul upon the visit from Jesus... yes Saul/Paul KNEW Jesus, but His visit came after Jesus had ascended. Now I must say that for a man to go from a killer to apostle, well something must have happened.
oh yeah I have heard it many times, just a book, written by man, yada yada yada
really want to know
A S K only the truth will set you free
This good stuff Dana, thank you, denise
| | 5/28/2008 10:03:10 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
dana1956
New Braunfels, TX
age: 51
| Denise,
I would like to say God Bless you but I can see He already has, so may He keep you.
Agape
[Edited 5/28/2008 10:03:26 AM]
| | 5/28/2008 10:04:39 AM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
nwgrown
White City, OR
age: 55
| Denise,
I would like to say God Bless you but I can see He already has, so may He keep you.
Agape
k bro I will be back a little later. Got some stuff to do God bless you too denise
| | 5/28/2008 12:01:10 PM | America's perversion of Christianity | |
leadingman1
Lake Dallas, TX
age: 18
| Classics - I was in a bit of a rush last night, but yes I would be interested to hear of other external evidence during this period.
Thanks
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