Home  Sign In  Search  Date Ideas  Join  Forums  Singles Groups  - 100% FREE Online Dating, Join Now!


12/2/2016 5:33:41 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

a_nubian
Over 1,000 Posts (1,790)
Columbus, OH
53, joined Jan. 2011


A video:
Utopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? Many people have dreamed about such a place. But wait, what would Utopia look like if we all were there? It wouldn't be Utopia would it? Well, there is a UTOPIA where humans can travel to and live, it is a real place. Find out how to get your passport to this paradise today!

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpPedkngVBM

Meet singles at DateHookup.com, we're 100% free! Join now!

DateHookup.com - 100% Free Personals


12/2/2016 9:00:03 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from a_nubian:
A video:
Utopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? Many people have dreamed about such a place. But wait, what would Utopia look like if we all were there? It wouldn't be Utopia would it? Well, there is a UTOPIA where humans can travel to and live, it is a real place. Find out how to get your passport to this paradise today!

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpPedkngVBM


Nice video. Must have been an Irish lass narrating the video. Is it an SDA video? I didn't hear any mention of that, if so. I also continued on (left YOUtube on autopilot) and saw a couple of videos about Utopia and Dystopia, and then some Wall-E stuff.

Accept Jesus as your "rescuer" it said. I wonder why they used that word instead of "Savior"? It's fine. I like rescuer too.

I think it said all you have to do is believe in Jesus and then it gave a quote from the bible but I didn't catch which verse it was. Do you know? I suppose I could listen to it again.

12/2/2016 9:17:32 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

a_nubian
Over 1,000 Posts (1,790)
Columbus, OH
53, joined Jan. 2011


Quote from followjesusonly:
Nice video. Must have been an Irish lass narrating the video. Is it an SDA video? I didn't hear any mention of that, if so. I also continued on (left YOUtube on autopilot) and saw a couple of videos about Utopia and Dystopia, and then some Wall-E stuff.

Accept Jesus as your "rescuer" it said. I wonder why they used that word instead of "Savior"? It's fine. I like rescuer too.

I think it said all you have to do is believe in Jesus and then it gave a quote from the bible but I didn't catch which verse it was. Do you know? I suppose I could listen to it again.


Thanks FJO

It was posted by someone on my FB by Amazing Facts. So yes it is an SDA video in origin.

I thinking the overall concept was to appeal to non Christians that might have been the reason they used 'rescuer' instead of 'Savior'

12/2/2016 9:28:39 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


*
Well, Rescuer works for me, like a fireman who shows you the way out of a burning house.

12/2/2016 9:36:31 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

a_nubian
Over 1,000 Posts (1,790)
Columbus, OH
53, joined Jan. 2011


Quote from followjesusonly:
*
Well, Rescuer works for me, like a fireman who shows you the way out of a burning house.


I just thought it was a good appeal that crossed all lines of differences on doctrine.

12/3/2016 2:42:19 AMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from a_nubian:

I just thought it was a good appeal that crossed all lines of differences on doctrine.


A good appeal yes, but I think hard core fundy Christians will not accept it.

12/3/2016 11:01:55 AMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,101)
Chicago, IL
63, joined Oct. 2007


Honestly I found this video very childish. And not to mention wrong. I don't want to insult anyone here, but there are several problems here.

Those videos advertised on the http://www.amazingfacts.org/ web site reminds me of the tracts that the Born Again Christians used to pass out.

First, the word "perfect" is not in the Scriptures. It can only be interpreted there. Jesus did not lead a "perfect" life and no one will ever be "perfect" here. Nowhere in the Scriptures is God described as "perfect."

There is no virus that keeps us from the park (paradeisos). The key to entering His Kingdom is not by becoming something. That is the lesson that we are supposed to learn.

CLV Ac 16:31 Now they say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household."

The one word that we need to have is SUBJECTION. It is what makes a paradise and what allows us to enter. So many skip over the word "Lord" in that verse.

It is subjection that allows a paradise in the first place. Those who refuse to be subject to Christ will be made to be subject to God after the Millennium is over.

And how can we be expected to understand such a thick Scottish brogue?

12/3/2016 11:05:32 AMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (31,123)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


The Catholic Church is a perfect society. The people aren't perfect, including the priests and popes, but the structure, the set-up is. After all it was founded by the perfect God-man Jesus Christ.

12/3/2016 12:23:16 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from bigd9832:
Honestly I found this video very childish. And not to mention wrong. I don't want to insult anyone here, but there are several problems here.

Those videos advertised on the http://www.amazingfacts.org/ web site reminds me of the tracts that the Born Again Christians used to pass out.

First, the word "perfect" is not in the Scriptures. It can only be interpreted there. Jesus did not lead a "perfect" life and no one will ever be "perfect" here. Nowhere in the Scriptures is God described as "perfect."


"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

There is no virus that keeps us from the park (paradeisos). The key to entering His Kingdom is not by becoming something. That is the lesson that we are supposed to learn.

CLV Ac 16:31 Now they say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household."

The one word that we need to have is SUBJECTION. It is what makes a paradise and what allows us to enter. So many skip over the word "Lord" in that verse.

It is subjection that allows a paradise in the first place. Those who refuse to be subject to Christ will be made to be subject to God after the Millennium is over.

And how can we be expected to understand such a thick Scottish brogue?


I thought the lass was probably Irish. She says "pairfect" for "perfect." Maybe it was Sinead O'Connor. Love that gal.



12/3/2016 5:40:38 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,101)
Chicago, IL
63, joined Oct. 2007


_____Strong's_____

G5046 teleios tel'-i-os
from G5056;

complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness.


The Ancient Greek term 'teleios' implies a completeness or maturity. Not perfection.

"Perfect" implies a standard regarding flaws. We are not expected to be flawless. But we are expected to be mature.

Here's an example. A dog's hair might be shiny and even smell good. A judge of a dog show might call the dog's hair "perfect." This, of course means perfect according to the rules of the dog show. Yet you would not judge your own hair or your girlfriend's hair by that same standard, would you?

CLV Hb 5:14 Now solid nourishment is for the mature, who, because of habit, have faculties exercised for discriminating between the ideal and the evil.

It is the same word used in this verse. 'Teleios' means "mature" not flawless.


Here is a joke...

2 Irishman come out of a bar.

Hey, it could happen.

12/3/2016 7:42:18 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


chuckle, chuckle.

12/4/2016 6:18:19 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,821)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


From FJO

Quote from bigd9832:
Honestly I found this video very childish. And not to mention wrong. I don't want to insult anyone here, but there are several problems here.

Those videos advertised on the http://www.amazingfacts.org/ web site reminds me of the tracts that the Born Again Christians used to pass out.

First, the word "perfect" is not in the Scriptures. It can only be interpreted there. Jesus did not lead a "perfect" life and no one will ever be "perfect" here. Nowhere in the Scriptures is God described as "perfect."

=======================

FJO


"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

========================

There is no virus that keeps us from the park (paradeisos). The key to entering His Kingdom is not by becoming something. That is the lesson that we are supposed to learn.

CLV Ac 16:31 Now they say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household."

The one word that we need to have is SUBJECTION. It is what makes a paradise and what allows us to enter. So many skip over the word "Lord" in that verse.

It is subjection that allows a paradise in the first place. Those who refuse to be subject to Christ will be made to be subject to God after the Millennium is over.


Form the parts quoted by FJO, I have to admit bigD has made some good points.

And the points are too important to ignore, even though I would like too.

Too many, including my self when I was younger, think Christianity is about becoming "perfect". But it is not at all about that.

Not sure if he will agree with me when I add this, but I think its is "love" that is perfect.

1 John 4:17-18 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

17 In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we -- we also are in this world;
18 fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love;

That 'perfect " love does not come by us being "perfect".

12/5/2016 12:54:45 AMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (31,123)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


"Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect", commands Jesus at Matthew 6:48. This shows that God is perfect, something we should already know from reason. And it is a command, not a suggestion. And since it is a command it must be doable---Jesus does not command the impossible. And it is a requirement for Heaven---Jesus
tells us at Revelation 21:27 that nothing undefiled shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now we know all sincere Christians have repented of their major sins, and either have left the life of murder, adultery, fornication, contraception, drunkeness, and idolatry behind, or never did these things in the first place. But what about the little stuff---impatience, anger over little things, laziness, gossip, people who steal pencils at work or towels out of motels, marijuana smokers, small acts of rudeness, embellishers of stories, people who spend too much time and effort on their personal appearance, etc.? These are sins. Only a very, very few people are so perfect that they have rooted all these things from their lives. Will all who have failed to do so go to Hell?

No they won't. So long as Christians avoid mortal sins Christians can be saved, but if they have venial sins, like the things on my second list, and almost all of us do, including myself, they will be saved "as by fire" (1 Corinthians 3:15)---in other words, Purgatory.



[Edited 12/5/2016 12:55:26 AM ]

12/5/2016 9:52:36 AMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

bigd9832
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (21,101)
Chicago, IL
63, joined Oct. 2007


Quote from ludlowlowell... "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect", commands Jesus at Matthew 6:48
*****************************************************************************************
The problem is, there is no verse 48 in Matthew chapter 6. Matthew 6 only goes up to 24.

There is no "hell" in the Scriptures either. It can only be interpreted there. There is no Ancient word for "hell" as we use it today.

The Catholic church lies and so does ludlow.

12/5/2016 2:38:55 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Quote from bigd9832:
Quote from ludlowlowell... "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect", commands Jesus at Matthew 6:48
*****************************************************************************************
The problem is, there is no verse 48 in Matthew chapter 6. Matthew 6 only goes up to 24.


My Matthew 6 goes up to 34, heh heh, but I have seen Ludlow do this before, make up a verse number. He probably meant 5:48 but he mis-remembered it.

12/5/2016 7:36:20 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,821)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
"Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect", commands Jesus at Matthew 6:48. This shows that God is perfect, something we should already know from reason. And it is a command, not a suggestion. And since it is a command it must be doable---Jesus does not command the impossible. And it is a requirement for Heaven---Jesus
tells us at Revelation 21:27 that nothing undefiled shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now we know all sincere Christians have repented of their major sins, and either have left the life of murder, adultery, fornication, contraception, drunkeness, and idolatry behind, or never did these things in the first place. But what about the little stuff---impatience, anger over little things, laziness, gossip, people who steal pencils at work or towels out of motels, marijuana smokers, small acts of rudeness, embellishers of stories, people who spend too much time and effort on their personal appearance, etc.? These are sins. Only a very, very few people are so perfect that they have rooted all these things from their lives. Will all who have failed to do so go to Hell?

No they won't. So long as Christians avoid mortal sins Christians can be saved, but if they have venial sins, like the things on my second list, and almost all of us do, including myself, they will be saved "as by fire" (1 Corinthians 3:15)---in other words, Purgatory.


No, being in the sense you are using the term is not "doable". Perfection in works and being "sin less" is not possible for man. And your attempt to makes it so by categorizing "sin", into good sin, not so bad sin, and really bad sin, does not change our imperfection into "perfection".

Matthew 5:48 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

48 ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who [is] in the heavens is perfect.

It is a rather childish act, to try and categorize sins as some are ok and some are not as bad . Any parent has dealt with that argument. "All I did was this, they did that"! Sound familiar? If Perfection in this verse means to be sin less and a fine fellow, sorry, we all come short.

Strongs says this about the word "perfect" used in that verse.

5046. teleios ?
Strong's Concordance
teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
Original Word: t??e???, a, ??
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

-"teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect-"

-Short Definition: perfect, full-grown

- perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.

One can see that word does not mean, perfect as in sin less. I was going to use wine as an example, but since Irish is mentioned will use whiskey. No whiskey is "perfect" as in not having any faults at all. Perfection does not exist in the world. But, "grown up", "complete in all its parts", "of full age", being "complete" is attainable in the sense that it is as perfect as it can ever be.

So that 18 year old Irish whiskey, is as perfect as its going to get.

Romans 3:23, tells us all sin :

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

23 for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God

But even with that verse, we have some that claim they are sin less since they received Christ. To justify their position, they will categorize sin and say, my sin is not as bad as yours. So, its not really a sin?

But 1 John chapter 1 deals with this.


1 John 1:7-10 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

7 and if in the light we may walk, as He is in the light -- we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son doth cleanse us from every sin;
8 if we may say -- `we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;
9 if we may confess our sins, stedfast He is and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from every unrighteousness;
10 if we may say -- `we have not sinned,' a liar we make Him, and His word is not in us.

12/5/2016 9:04:42 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

followjesusonly
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,378)
Kingman, AZ
74, joined May. 2012
online now!


Via isna,

Ludlow said:

Now we know all sincere Christians have repented of their major sins, and either have left the life of murder, adultery, fornication, contraception, drunkeness, and idolatry behind, or never did these things in the first place. But what about the little stuff---impatience, anger over little things, laziness, gossip, people who steal pencils at work or towels out of motels, marijuana smokers, ...

marijuana smokers?



contraception?

You're a sick man, Lud.

You left off your one big sin, self-righteousness.

12/5/2016 9:07:29 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (31,123)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


With man, perfection is impossible. With God, all things are possible. Even perfection. Me? I have a long way to go before I get to that point.

12/5/2016 10:13:22 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,821)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
With man, perfection is impossible. With God, all things are possible. Even perfection. Me? I have a long way to go before I get to that point.


Really?

Then why are you attacking so many others?

"John 8:7 ?
Parallel Verses
New International Version
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

12/5/2016 10:35:00 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (31,123)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


I attack false ideas and the hiersiarchs, like Luther, who preached them. I have nothing but love in my heart for the Protestant people. I would like to see the Protestants and Eastern Orthodox return to the True Church so there can be one fold and one Shepherd, as Jesus prayed for.

12/5/2016 10:57:39 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,821)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I attack false ideas and the hiersiarchs, like Luther, who preached them. I have nothing but love in my heart for the Protestant people. I would like to see the Protestants and Eastern Orthodox return to the True Church so there can be one fold and one Shepherd, as Jesus prayed for.


And this is what your Church says. Yet you deny it:


(Vatican Radio) Pope Francis on Sunday said “life is not a video game or a soap opera; our life is serious and the goal to achieve is important: eternal salvation.” Speaking to pilgrims gathered for the Angelus prayer in St. Peter's Square, the Pope focused on the theme of eternal salvation and referred to the day’s Gospel reading in which a man asks Jesus how many people will be saved. “It doesn’t matter how many,” the Pope noted, “but it is important that everyone knows which is the path that leads to salvation.” And the door to salvation lies in Jesus, he said, and we can cross the threshold of God's mercy through love, and by overcoming pride, arrogance and sin.
Below, please find a Vatican Radio translation of the Pope’s Angelus address:
“Dear brothers and sisters, good morning!
Today's Gospel passage invites us to meditate on the theme of salvation. The Evangelist Luke tells us that Jesus is on the way to Jerusalem and along the way is approached by a man who asks him this question: "Lord, will only a few people be saved?" (Luke 13:23). Jesus does not give a direct answer, but takes the discussion to another level, with suggestive language that at first, the disciples don’t understand: "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter, but they will not succeed" (v.24 ). With the image of the door, He wants to explain to his listeners that it is not a question of numbers – how many people will be saved. It doesn’t matter how many, but it is important that everyone knows which is the path that leads to salvation: the door.
To go along this path, one must pass through a door. But where is the door? What is it like? Who is the door? Jesus himself is the door (cf. Jn 10,9). He himself says it, ‘I am the door’ in John’s Gospel. He leads us in communion with the Father, where we find love, understanding and protection. But why is this door narrow? One can ask. Why is it narrow? It is a narrow door not because it is oppressive - no, but because it asks us to restrict and limit our pride and our fear, to open ourselves with humble and trusting heart to Him, recognizing ourselves as sinners, in need of his forgiveness. For this, it is narrow: to contain our pride, which bloats us. The door of God's mercy is narrow but always wide open, wide open for everyone! God has no favorites, but always welcomes everyone, without distinction. A door, that is narrow to restrict our pride and our fear. Open because God welcomes us without distinction. And the salvation that He gives us is an unceasing flow of mercy…which breaks down every barrier and opens up surprising perspectives of light and peace. The narrow but always open door: do not forget this. Narrow door, but always open.
Jesus offers us today, once again, a pressing invitation to go to him, to cross the threshold of a full life, reconciled and happy. He waits for each of us, no matter what sin we have committed, no matter what! To embrace us, to offer us his forgiveness. He alone can transform our hearts, He alone can give full meaning to our existence, giving us true joy. Upon entering the door of Jesus, the door of faith and of the Gospel, we can leave behind worldly attitudes, bad habits, selfishness and the closing ourselves off. When there is contact with the love and mercy of God, there is real change. And our life is illuminated by the light of the Holy Spirit: an inextinguishable light!”
Pope Francis: life is no video game, the goal of salvation is serious ...
en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/08/21/pope_francis_life...salvation.../1252717

12/5/2016 11:03:28 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

isna_la_wica
Over 4,000 Posts! (6,821)
Brantford, ON
62, joined Mar. 2012


MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
TO HIS HOLINESS ABUNA MATTHIAS
PATRIARCH OF THE ETHIOPIAN TEWAHEDO ORTHODOX CHURCH

To His Holiness Abuna Matthias
Patriarch of the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church

With great distress and sadness I learn of the further shocking violence perpetrated against innocent Christians in Lybia. I know that Your Holiness is suffering deeply in heart and mind at the sight of your faithful children being killed for the sole reason that they are followers of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I reach out to you in heartfelt spiritual solidarity to assure you of my closeness in prayer at the continuing martyrdom being so cruelly inflicted on Christians in Africa, the Middle East and some parts of Asia.

It makes no difference whether the victims are Catholic, Copt, Orthodox or Protestant. Their blood is one and the same in their confession of Christ! The blood of our Christian brothers and sisters is a testimony which cries out to be heard by everyone who can still distinguish between good and evil. All the more this cry must be heard by those who have the destiny of peoples in their hands.

At this time we are filled with the Easter joy of the disciples to whom the women had brought the news that “Christ has risen from the dead”. This year, that joy – which never fades – is tinged with profound sorrow. Yet we know that the life we live in God’s merciful love is stronger than the pain all Christians feel, a pain shared by men and women of good will in all religious traditions.

With heartfelt condolences I exchange with Your Holiness the embrace of peace in Christ Our Lord.

From the Vatican, 20 April 2015

Franciscus


Why do you not follow your church Lud?



12/5/2016 11:09:55 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 
mindya
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (23,375)
Vancouver, BC
64, joined Jan. 2009


To proclaim that God is "mature" is stretching it somewhat in my opinion - the word has been used or translated as perfect:




12/5/2016 11:23:43 PMUtopia...would you like to live in a near perfect society? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (31,123)
Panama City, FL
64, joined Feb. 2008


The pope calls gor peace. The pope is saddened that Christians are being persecuted by Muslims, even if they are Eastern Orthodox Christians and not Catholics.

I agree. I'm for peace. I don't like to see anyone persecuted for their faith or forced to change religions against their wills. I believe in freedom of religion and I agree with Vatican II on this subject.

But I also believe in truth. I believe in Jesus Christ and recognize that there is no salvation under any other name. And since the Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ, the mystical bride of Christ, and the pillar and ground of truth, I recognize that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.