| 4/15/2010 9:35:32 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |  randomwalk_v2
 Montville, NJ 45, joined Mar. 2009
| Silent no More
When he spoke 41 years ago, the world listened — hanging on every word as he uttered one of the most inspiring phrases of the 20th century.
Neil Armstrong earned himself a lifetime of respect with his one giant leap for mankind, but he has for decades refrained from exploiting it, turning down opportunities in politics and avoiding controversy.
Now the space gloves are off. The first man on the Moon has teamed up with the last man, Gene Cernan, to confront President Obama over his “devastating” plans for Nasa’s $108 billion (£70 billion) Constellation programme. Mr Obama wants to scrap Constellation, which was meant to develop new space ships to replace the shuttle, take astronauts back to the Moon and ultimately to Mars.
The death of the project would set America’s space programme on a “long downhill slide to mediocrity”, Armstrong declared yesterday. “It appears that we will have wasted our current $10-plus billion investment in Constellation and, equally importantly, we will have lost the many years required to re-create the equivalent of what we will have discarded,” he said in a statement.
Determined to regain the high ground in the increasingly embarrassing dispute, the White House wheeled out a big gun of its own: Buzz Aldrin, Armstrong’s Apollo 11 crewmate and second man on the Moon.
In a statement, Aldrin said that the President’s new vision for Nasa would leave America’s space programme better off. “It will allow us to again be pushing the boundaries to achieve new and challenging things beyond Earth,” he said.
Mr Obama will elaborate on his agenda during a visit to Kennedy Space Centre in Florida today. He will argue that America could get humans to deep-space destinations including Mars faster, cheaper and more efficiently than Constellation by outsourcing new spacecraft development to the commercial sector.
The first man on the Moon will take some convincing. “For the United States, the leading space-faring nation for nearly half a century, to be without carriage to low-Earth orbit and with no human exploration capability to go beyond Earth orbit for an indeterminate time into the future, destines our nation to become one of second or even third-rate stature,” he said.
Mr Obama’s proposals contained a funding increase that will allow more research and technology development at Nasa and a four-year extension to the International Space Station. The development of spacecraft to get astronauts to low-Earth orbit will be outsourced to commercial rocketeers while Nasa focuses on developing a new heavy-lift rocket, that could one day speed man to Mars and beyond.
“This new strategy means more money for Nasa, more jobs for the country, more astronaut time in space, and more investments in innovation,” Mr Obama will say today, according to excerpts leaked before his speech.
Armstrong countered: “Although some of these proposals have merit, the accompanying decision to cancel the Constellation programme, its Ares I and Ares V rockets, and the Orion spacecraft, is devastating.”
He added: “America must decide if it wishes to remain a leader in space. If it does, we should institute a programme which will give us the very best chance of achieving that goal.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7097868.ece
AMERICAN HERO-----------vs-----------MUSLIM TRAITOR and TYRANT
 
[Edited 4/15/2010 9:36:43 PM ]
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| 4/15/2010 11:40:39 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
hunter12gauge
 Bellaire, OH 54, joined Apr. 2008
| The Space program has brought us alot of innovations over the years,ans has employed at least 23,000 Floridians,not to mention the others employed at NASA. This also affects the employment of the "support" industries that provide goods and services to the program. The "president" just doesn't seem to "get it". Whereever he can reduce employment is OK with him. Obama touts that delivering our astronauts to the space station in the future will be left upto the "private sector" of businesses. WHO is going to invest that kind of capital,if they could scrap it up to begin with,into a pipe dream of having control over space travel from now to eternity. The ONLY answer to "fund" all of the "goodies" on the democratic "wish list" come from the pockets of the "taxpayers",but soon there will be no jobs left or workers to tax,then what? This administration has NO experience owning or running anything,so what makes them "assume" that the taxpayeeers are going to go along to get along? The whole idea to "scrap" the Constellation,which is already paid for and is a "working" project seems to me as others a huge waste of time and money.
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| 4/15/2010 11:54:08 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 italiano72
 Chesapeake, VA 44, joined Apr. 2009
| Obama outlines new NASA strategy for deep space exploration
now read the full story ... PS how did u guys got the 23k number of job loss when its going to be about 7k ???
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/15/obama.space/index.html?hpt=T2
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| 4/16/2010 12:01:35 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
hunter12gauge
 Bellaire, OH 54, joined Apr. 2008
| Obama outlines new NASA strategy for deep space exploration
now read the full story ... PS how did u guys got the 23k number of job loss when its going to be about 7k ???
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/15/obama.space/index.html?hpt=T2 Maybe YOU forgot to count all the "jobs","saved "or "created". Isn't that the USUAL LIE the Obama administration uses here.
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| 4/16/2010 1:08:33 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 italiano72
 Chesapeake, VA 44, joined Apr. 2009
| Maybe YOU forgot to count all the "jobs","saved "or "created". Isn't that the USUAL LIE the Obama administration uses here. 
again how did u get the 23k number for job loss ?? FOX NEWS ???
we can go back and fourth on the he said she said ....
obama did not canceled NASA.... if anything his trying to move NASA forward instead of staying in the past
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| 4/16/2010 3:28:39 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
motownmaniax
 New Baltimore, MI 56, joined Apr. 2009
| You conveniently forgot to include input from another American Hero, Random.
As an Apollo astronaut, I know the importance of always pushing new frontiers as we explore space. The truth is, that we have already been to the Moon - some 40 years ago. A near-term focus on lowering the cost of access to space and on developing key, cutting-edge technologies to take us further, faster, is just what our Nation needs to maintain its position as the leader in space exploration for the rest of this century. We need to be in this for the long haul, and this program will allow us to again be pushing the boundaries to achieve new and challenging things beyond Earth. I hope NASA will embrace this new direction as much as I do, and help us all continue to use space exploration to drive prosperity and innovation right here on Earth.
I also believe the steps we will be taking following the President's direction will best position NASA and other space agencies to send humans to Mars and other exciting destinations as quickly as possible. To do that, we will need to support many types of game-changing technologies NASA and its partners will be developing. Mars is the next frontier for humankind, and NASA will be leading the way there if we aggressively support the President's plans.
~Buzz Aldrin
Obama announced a revised plan yesterday, which was greeted positively. So much for deep-sixing another Obama smear.
Btw, socialist and tax-paying hater, just how will this huge government space program be paid for?
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| 4/16/2010 7:19:11 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
forumchat
 Ellsworth, MI 49, joined Jan. 2009
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Btw, socialist and tax-paying hater, just how will this huge government space program be paid for?
I have created several posts addressing the propensity for conservatives to insist that discretionary spending, earmarks and pork projects be cut from the budget, while in the next breath b*tching when Obama does just that.
Bailing out banks and other corporations? Government takeover and socialism.
Cutting billions in subsidies for private banks, effectively taking the government out of their business? Bad.
Health care reform requiring that everyone's taxes be pooled to help pay for other's medical costs? Government takeover and socialism.
Cutting waste in a hugely expensive, unfunded, government prescription drug program, or disallowing a tax deduction on tax free government subsidies meant to defray the costs of health care while those same companies still increase rates for seniors? Bad.
Hiring more workers to perform the day to day duties of government? Palm greasing, government expansion, frivolous spending, socialism.
Cutting a hugely expensive and wasteful space program (Constellation) and outsourcing some of the government's workload to private, commercial companies? Bad.
These people are so dead set against anything Obama that they can't even be consistent in their supposed fiscal conservatism or support for capitalism. It's like I've been saying for some time now; conservatives like big government just fine, as long as the wealth is redistributed into programs they approve, such as defense contracts or large corporations.
Cut government spending! Just make sure none of it is mine!
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| 4/16/2010 8:14:53 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 kire42 Champaign, IL 40, joined Oct. 2009
| He's not actually making cuts to NASA. In fact in a speech yesterday he said he was increasing NASA spending by six billion dollars over the next five years dispute cuts to discresionary spending elsewhere.
We've already been to the moon so this is just a change in the mission plan. Were now targetting exploring Mars and the asteroids. Mars is the next frontier, he said he wanted to put a man on mars within his lifetime. I think he's making the right decision.
Sources (see what five minutes and google will get you?):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/16/obama_space_vision/
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| 4/16/2010 9:38:44 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 winxi
 Saint Louis, MO 57, joined Oct. 2009
| ..But the strategy shift is far from an abort scenario. Many workers at the U.S. space port on Florida's Cape Canaveral would still lose their jobs after the shuttle's long-planned retirement later this year. And key elements of the NASA strategy the White House first outlined in February remain in place.
..When Discovery returns from its current mission, there are only three more flights scheduled: an Atlantis mission in May, an Endeavour flight in July, and then one last trip to orbit for Discovery in September. The plan to retire the shuttle fleet was put in motion by President George W. Bush in 2004 to help pay for an ambitious proposal to build a new spacecraft and return U.S. astronauts to the moon...
The Constellation Program: NASA's original idea for replacing the shuttle was a new family of rockets and spacecraft designed not only to carry astronauts back and forth to Earth orbit, but to eventually transport human explorers to the moon and beyond.
An advisory panel that looked into the future of human spaceflight found that the Constellation program had long been underfunded and behind schedule to meet any of its goals. Based on those findings, the administration proposed a budget that would pull the plug on the program, after six years and more than $9 billion of development.
With Thursday's announcement, Obama ordered NASA to revive one component: the four-person Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle, reinvented as an on-call rescue vehicle for orbiting space crews. While far from the glamorous missions for which Orion was conceived, Obama said the scaled-down rescue vehicle could still establish a "technological foundation" for future spacecraft that will be needed for future space missions.
The Space Station: The Obama administration would extend the life of the International Space Station by at least five years to 2020. The extra time would be significant since the station has only been able to accommodate a full-size, full-time crew of six for less than a year. Keeping the orbiting outpost open would provide a laboratory for preparing for long-duration missions further from home.
As of October, the station will have been continuously occupied by at least two people for a decade. The challenge in the station's second decade of operations will be getting crews to and from it. After the shuttle, NASA and its international partners will be dependent on the small three-person Russian Soyuz spacecraft -- with a round-trip ticket costing passengers more than $50 million a pop.
Private Space Taxis: Having canceled Constellation, the Obama administration's primary focus is to help start a new industry -- corporate spacecraft builders that would sell transportation services instead of vehicles to NASA and its partners.
The administration says relying on the private sector will give the country a shuttle replacement a year or two sooner than the Constellation program would have been ready to fly and offer redundancy.
One likely private sector contender is Space Exploration Technologies. Under a contract from NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program, SpaceX already is developing a launcher and a reusable spacecraft designed to help resupply the space station starting next year. Adapting its cargo hauler, called Dragon, to carry as many as a half-dozen astronauts is next on the company's agenda.
SpaceX founder Elon Musk -- the billionaire online entrepreneur behind the PayPal e-commerce system -- is understandably enthusiastic about the president's focus on new, commercially developed spacecraft. "The new plan is to harness our nation's unparalleled system of free enterprise (as we have done in all other modes of transport), to create far more reliable and affordable rockets," he said in a statement Thursday.
Musk also said turning over routine orbital missions to the private sector would "free up the NASA resources necessary to develop interplanetary transport technologies."
Heavy-Lift Launcher: Interplanetary missions and other forms of deep-space exploration would require rockets that could provide a much bigger boost than the family of Falcon rockets Musk's company is developing. So Obama proposed Thursday to invest $3.1 billion in designing a new heavy-lift launch vehicle by 2015.
The president's previous plan was far murkier on the timing for development of such a rocket, which would replace Constellation's Ares V lifter. The administration says Obama's promise to select a design for a heavy-lift launch vehicle in five years means major work on the rocket would begin as much as two years sooner than if Constellation wasn't canceled.
Return To The Moon: Obama was dismissive of the Constellation program's emphasis on getting astronauts back to the moon by the end of this decade. "We've been there before," he said.
Instead, he called for NASA to focus on exploring more far-flung destinations, where no one has gone before. Near-Earth asteroids are one possible destination. Another are the "Lagrange points" -- areas of space balanced between the Earth and the moon that could serve as gravitational islands for long-term research and even potential fueling depots.
Obama did not commit to specific deadlines, but said he thought some of those missions could be mounted by the mid-2020s, with a Mars landing at some point later. "And I expect to be around to see it," the 48-year-old president added.
The Budget: Back on Planet Earth, all of this will need the approval of NASA's check writers in Congress. And much of Thursday's announcement was geared to winning over Capitol Hill skeptics, especially those whose constituents have ties to NASA and its national network of contractors.
In many ways the revisions are designed to serve as a political deflector shield for the White House space strategy. The original plan has been under fire from NASA workers, space program advocates and even some high-profile former Apollo astronauts. The critics described the original plan as a mission to nowhere that would effectively dismantle the U.S. manned space capability, leaving U.S. astronauts without their own ride for the first time since the gap between the final Apollo flight in 1975 and the first space shuttle flight in 1981.
Obama emphasized that his plan would increase NASA's budget by $6 billion over five years, even while he was proposing to hold down other discretionary spending programs in the federal budget. He described major investments in the Kennedy Space Center and forecasted adding 2,500 jobs to Florida's "Space Coast" by 2012.
The administration estimates that cultivating private-sector space launchers will create 10,000 new jobs across the country over the next five years, while building an Orion-based rescue ship will preserve critical jobs for federal contractors in Colorado, Texas and Florida.
Obama said the country's investments in space exploration over the past five decades have paid off big "for pennies on the dollar." If Congress agrees, the lawmakers' mission will be to discover the dollars to pay for the president's vision.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126023150
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| 4/16/2010 9:43:09 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
strongdad
 Palmdale, CA 57, joined May. 2009
| Barack Obama: "We have Buzz! Buzz is here!"
Forum, are you intimating that The Big Mao is intending on cutting Nasa? He just said, yesterday, that we should forget the Moon since "we've been there, done that", and are now focused on Mars. Is that what we call "cutting spending", now?
SD
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| 4/16/2010 11:19:50 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
forumchat
 Ellsworth, MI 49, joined Jan. 2009
|
Forum, are you intimating that The Big Mao is intending on cutting Nasa? He just said, yesterday, that we should forget the Moon since "we've been there, done that", and are now focused on Mars. Is that what we call "cutting spending", now?
SD
You make me tired, SD...you know what I was saying. I specifically said "Cutting a hugely expensive and wasteful space program (Constellation) and outsourcing some of the government's workload to private, commercial companies..."
So no, I did not intimate that the president was "cutting NASA." I said he was cutting Constellation, a program that has already cost about 10 billion dollars and would cost even more just to go some place we've already been.
Random's OP is b*tching about the possibility of government jobs lost by cutting a government program that is way over budget and at least three years behind schedule. It's a stupid argument, especially coming from someone who pretends to support cutting government debt and investing in private business. I don't understand why he doesn't want to see private industry allowed into the space program or why he is against the idea of capitalism sparking competition and creating jobs in the private sector.
As for your comment about Mars, if we are going to continue funding a space program, why not stop spending the money on redundant low Earth orbit and begin concentrating on exploring deeper into space?
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| 4/16/2010 11:53:38 AM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 simonptkd
 Berkshire United Kingdom 58, joined Oct. 2009
| You make me tired, SD...you know what I was saying. I specifically said "Cutting a hugely expensive and wasteful space program (Constellation) and outsourcing some of the government's workload to private, commercial companies..."
So no, I did not intimate that the president was "cutting NASA." I said he was cutting Constellation, a program that has already cost about 10 billion dollars and would cost even more just to go some place we've already been.
Random's OP is b*tching about the possibility of government jobs lost by cutting a government program that is way over budget and at least three years behind schedule. It's a stupid argument, especially coming from someone who pretends to support cutting government debt and investing in private business. I don't understand why he doesn't want to see private industry allowed into the space program or why he is against the idea of capitalism sparking competition and creating jobs in the private sector.
As for your comment about Mars, if we are going to continue funding a space program, why not stop spending the money on redundant low Earth orbit and begin concentrating on exploring deeper into space?
Outsourcing is never cheaper in the long run!!!!
As to the moon, far better place to stage deep space missions from than earth, simply because you can lift 6 times the payload for the same energy cost....or conversly the same payloads with 1/6th the thrust. Thrust equates to fuel, fuel equates to weight so staging from the moon makes a lot more sense!!!
[Edited 4/16/2010 11:56:31 AM ]
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| 4/16/2010 12:33:16 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 kire42 Champaign, IL 40, joined Oct. 2009
| Outsourcing is never cheaper in the long run!!!!
As to the moon, far better place to stage deep space missions from than earth, simply because you can lift 6 times the payload for the same energy cost....or conversly the same payloads with 1/6th the thrust. Thrust equates to fuel, fuel equates to weight so staging from the moon makes a lot more sense!!!
makes sense, but wouldn't staging from orbit make even more sense since gravity is nominal?
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| 4/16/2010 1:09:23 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
motownmaniax
 New Baltimore, MI 56, joined Apr. 2009
| Barack Obama: "We have Buzz! Buzz is here!"
Forum, are you intimating that The Big Mao is intending on cutting Nasa? He just said, yesterday, that we should forget the Moon since "we've been there, done that", and are now focused on Mars. Is that what we call "cutting spending", now?
SD
Instead of your endless Obama harangues why not try offering something constructive and intelligent.
For starters, what would you want to keep and cut in our space program? What's your vision for space exploration? How would you pay for it?
From what I've read about the administration's original vision, they targeted dropping programs that were years behind schedule and billions over budget. That actually sounds very "conservative" to me, dontcha think?
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| 4/16/2010 1:27:09 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 randomwalk_v2
 Montville, NJ 45, joined Mar. 2009
| You conveniently forgot to include input from another American Hero, Random.
Obama announced a revised plan yesterday, which was greeted positively. So much for deep-sixing another Obama smear.
Btw, socialist and tax-paying hater, just how will this huge government space program be paid for?
Nothing to do with convenience or spin. 
BUZZ ALDRIN is ALWAYS speaking out on everything...and has for YEARS.
...and HE is the ONE EXCEPTION with these cuts to all the other Astronauts.
(so much for YOUR spin)
Conversely....
Neil Armstrong is just about a recluse and NEVER SAYS ANYTHING about ANYTHING.
For Neil Armstrong to speak up...and a DOZEN other APOLLO ERA ASTRONAUTS ....SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG.
In statements e-mailed to the Associated Press and NBC, Armstrong and other astronauts took exception with Obama's plan to cancel NASA's return-to-the-moon program, dubbed Project Constellation.
Armstrong, in an e-mail to the AP, said he had "substantial reservations." More than two dozen Apollo-era veterans, including Lovell and Cernan, signed another letter Monday calling the plan a "misguided proposal that forces NASA out of human space operations for the foreseeable future."
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2010-04-14-armstrong-moon_N.htm
Thank You Neil and all the Apollo era Astronauts.
You are an American heroes....and a HEROES to the ENTIRE PLANET for those who believe in FREEDOM and EXCEPTIONALISM.

[Edited 4/16/2010 1:27:48 PM ]
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| 4/16/2010 1:40:16 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 davidlawson
 Gadsden, AL 52, joined Dec. 2009
| In December 2003, Aldrin published an article criticizing NASA's objectives in the New York Times. In it, he voiced concern about NASA's development of a spacecraft "limited to transporting four astronauts at a time with little or no cargo carrying capability" and declared the goal of sending astronauts back to the moon was "more like reaching for past glory than striving for new triumphs".
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| 4/16/2010 1:50:51 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 randomwalk_v2
 Montville, NJ 45, joined Mar. 2009
| Proving that Aldrin speaks out often
...and is apparently semi-clueless since the MOON was a JUMP POINT needed to get to MARS.
Launching from the MOON to MARS takes MUCH MUCH less resources than launching from Earth.
Sounds more like BUZZ has an AGENDA than AMBITION anymore.

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| 4/16/2010 1:54:07 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 kire42 Champaign, IL 40, joined Oct. 2009
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but wouldn't we still have to get the resources from earth to mars first? Why not just launch to mars from orbit?
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| 4/16/2010 2:11:45 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 randomwalk_v2
 Montville, NJ 45, joined Mar. 2009
| Quote from kire42:
"but wouldn't we still have to get the resources from earth to mars first? Why not just launch to mars from orbit?"
*******************
Nope....that was the WHOLE POINT of the moon.
You can make many needed products and advantages by being there.
1)There is CONFIRMED water on the moon.
Split the water into hydrogen and oxygen and you have ROCKET FUEL that doesn't need to be carried into space. That's a HUUUUUUUUGE weight savings.
2) The moons gravity is 17% that of Earth....so you need MUCH LESS FUEL to launch MUCH HEAVIER LOADS.
....just 2 MAJOR advantages of MANY.
(btw...another is simplified launch trajectory to Mars)

[Edited 4/16/2010 2:13:11 PM ]
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| 4/16/2010 2:55:54 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
motownmaniax
 New Baltimore, MI 56, joined Apr. 2009
| ^^^ Establishing huge and expensive moon colonies and using them as a staging point is not the answer to get to Mars. You’re essentially transporting all your materials twice, once to get to the moon and then to Mars. You also have to keep any moon base stocked and maintained. That would take even more resources away from further space exploration.
There are plasma rockets in development that can get to Mars in as little as 39 days from earth orbit. It’d be smarter to back funding for that than any moon base(s).
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| 4/16/2010 3:09:08 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
 randomwalk_v2
 Montville, NJ 45, joined Mar. 2009
| No one said "HUGE EXPENSIVE MOON COLONIES" except you and the other spinners. 
It ONE BASE...and it's MUCH CHEAPER as a result...if you launch from the moon.
As for the plasma rockets...
That is something that should be done in parallel with the Moon/Mars project...
...as NASA has always done.....and keep INVENTION alive.
Many NASA technologies have translated into other uses in American Industry and have contributed GREATLY to keeping America on top.
Cutting funding from NASA undermines MANY, MANY MANY NEW TECHNOLOGIES and POTENTIALS.
Obama is a sick and disturbed man who is HELL BENT on crippling the USA from every angle.
I reiterate....
AMERICAN HERO-----------vs-----------MUSLIM TRAITOR and TYRANT
 
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| 4/16/2010 3:46:35 PM | Neil Armstrong takes one giant swipe at Obama over Nasa cuts | |
motownmaniax
 New Baltimore, MI 56, joined Apr. 2009
| I see you have no problem tearing down one American hero and praising another, only because one agrees with your position and the other doesn’t. If the opinions were reversed I’m sure you’d have no problem ridiculing Armstrong and fawning over Aldrin. Your petty partisan bias and hate even extends to our space program? What an unprincipled toad you are.
I happen to think “both” are heroes and make compelling arguments. But they aren’t the president, and as such don’t make policy. Get over your hate for just one second.
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