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9/7/2014 4:39:11 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from sincetta:
ive told the story here in the religion forums, but it didn't get the best responses.


The problem with doing that is that such stories are totally subjective.




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9/7/2014 10:40:19 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
romantikind74
San Antonio, TX
44, joined Jul. 2014


Even the devil knows all our story
Thats one to think about

9/10/2014 11:18:19 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
joyusall2
Over 2,000 Posts (3,574)
Queensland
Australia
71, joined Oct. 2011


Quote from asanb:
I had a long term relationship with a woman who was a natural born healer. She could look at people and get impressions of what the underlying causes of their ailments were.
She was always right, and born out by evidence from later medical diagnosis.

There are gifted people.


That what Jesus did
and some said

he had a demon

Makes U wonder---?
How does One know what is true power
from the creator?

9/11/2014 7:09:07 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from romantikind74:
Even the devil knows all our story
Thats one to think about



Here's the problem.
You think about a devil, therefore making it real for you. So as we think, so is what we manifest for our selves!!!

I have found no evidence of a devil, and therefore there is no devil. I don't accept any devil, and therefore have no problems with devils. I don't give such an entity any power or authority over me. I do not manifest demons, I manifest peace, love and harmony, with the mear energy of my thoughts. We actually manifest our own realities with our thoughts.
What's more I give no organized religion, tradition, or spirituality, or the revered authorities of those religions, traditions, or spiritualities authority over me. The energy of the all, the universe, all that is, is my only authority, and of course I must act in accordance to the natural laws that holds authority over each of us.

9/12/2014 5:35:28 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,647)
Saint Petersburg, FL
70, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from rufftreasure:
Here's the problem.
You think about a devil, therefore making it real for you. So as we think, so is what we manifest for our selves!!!

I have found no evidence of a devil, and therefore there is no devil. I don't accept any devil, and therefore have no problems with devils. I don't give such an entity any power or authority over me. I do not manifest demons, I manifest peace, love and harmony, with the mear energy of my thoughts. We actually manifest our own realities with our thoughts.
What's more I give no organized religion, tradition, or spirituality, or the revered authorities of those religions, traditions, or spiritualities authority over me. The energy of the all, the universe, all that is, is my only authority, and of course I must act in accordance to the natural laws that holds authority over each of us.




Peace

9/12/2014 11:51:07 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
get2knowuwell3
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,176)
Fort Worth, TX
49, joined Jun. 2013


i always feel like a when i think of the OP

9/15/2014 10:55:31 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

myrealme
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,257)
Nampa, ID
43, joined Aug. 2013


Quote from get2knowuwell3:
i always feel like a when i think of the OP


Tell me more!

9/15/2014 11:15:59 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

sincetta
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,754)
Mobile, AL
31, joined May. 2014


i'm more of a possessor, tenant, or roost..

not really a medium...I do not require any time or space of any "ethereal" "spirits" to "communicate". they mostly just respond anyways. Usually jealous. Living harmoniously with animals so that we can understand each other emotionally is more exhilarating to me. Body language is interesting, especially when it seems systematic through one consciousness.

I guess removing all the prejudice in one's mind makes room for the responsibility of the dead.

I wouldn't want to be a medium though...i would only deal with it if it was in my general direction.

11/13/2014 12:01:43 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

krautguy
Over 1,000 Posts (1,342)
Ruidoso, NM
90, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from myrealme:
I do a mediums hair..
She is one of the nicest women I know.
She has shared some stories with me that make me believe it isn't evil at all.


Of course she shared stories to woo you.

Lies.

Wanna know the truth? Study the Bible.

11/13/2014 9:16:22 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


I'm not a medium, I am a large

11/13/2014 11:41:58 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from rufftreasure:
Here's the problem.
You think about a devil, therefore making it real for you. So as we think, so is what we manifest for our selves!!!

I have found no evidence of a devil, and therefore there is no devil. I don't accept any devil, and therefore have no problems with devils. I don't give such an entity any power or authority over me. I do not manifest demons, I manifest peace, love and harmony, with the mear energy of my thoughts. We actually manifest our own realities with our thoughts.
What's more I give no organized religion, tradition, or spirituality, or the revered authorities of those religions, traditions, or spiritualities authority over me. The energy of the all, the universe, all that is, is my only authority, and of course I must act in accordance to the natural laws that holds authority over each of us.


You got it, mama. Mostly. IMO, the devil is individual conciousness of existence without the consciousness of love. And hell is life without salvation or paradise. It is absolutely impossible for hate to exist by its own right, it is only the lack of love. You can apply the term devil to any conscious hater. Imagine he who is consciously immoral. All we need to do is shed light on them; knowledge, happiness, and virtue and you our prophet told it first, there is no devil. Duality is the case, they know some thing's but not all things. They know they hurt but they don't know we care.



[Edited 11/13/2014 11:44:26 AM ]

11/13/2014 9:42:17 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
get2knowuwell3
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,176)
Fort Worth, TX
49, joined Jun. 2013


Quote from rufftreasure:
I'm not a medium, I am a xtra large


fixed

11/13/2014 9:54:04 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Okay

11/15/2014 1:58:54 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
get2knowuwell3
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (11,176)
Fort Worth, TX
49, joined Jun. 2013




11/15/2014 9:50:28 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
You got it, mama. Mostly. IMO, the devil is individual conciousness of existence without the consciousness of love. And hell is life without salvation or paradise. It is absolutely impossible for hate to exist by its own right, it is only the lack of love. You can apply the term devil to any conscious hater. Imagine he who is consciously immoral. All we need to do is shed light on them; knowledge, happiness, and virtue and you our prophet told it first, there is no devil. Duality is the case, they know some thing's but not all things. They know they hurt but they don't know we care.


So if you don't care you ought to get on a plane and fly into Iraq, Syria and Palestine. Just walk around and tell everyone what you think.


11/15/2014 10:08:41 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


typo:
So if you care you ought to get on a plane and fly into Iraq, Syria and Palestine. Just walk around and tell everyone what you think.


11/15/2014 10:11:55 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from myrealme:
God given gift, or no?

Anyone had any experiences?


Psychotic experiences more are common than one wants to believe. Most people have had auditory hallucinations especially during times of stress and grief and usually around bedtime or before awakening. Its neurological.

If you think dead people are communicating to you then it might be true that a dead part of your mind is doing the talking.

11/15/2014 10:56:20 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Psychotic experiences more are common than one wants to believe. Most people have had auditory hallucinations especially during times of stress and grief and usually around bedtime or before awakening. Its neurological.

If you think dead people are communicating to you then it might be true that a dead part of your mind is doing the talking.


Telepathy for dummies coming soon.

11/15/2014 11:20:54 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
Telepathy for dummies coming soon.
Don't you already own the book?

But you are off topic. Telepathy is about communicating between living beings. Mediums communicate with the dead. Please categorize these religious delusions properly.

11/15/2014 7:18:03 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
mrhankchinaski
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,691)
Aurora, CO
56, joined Aug. 2014


The long island medium on that tv show was from my hometown of Hicksville NY.

She was a member of my parrish.


I knew people who came into contact with her and she seriously creeper them out.

They told her to get the heck away from me.

I think I would have done the same thing.

11/15/2014 8:06:43 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Psychotic experiences more are common than one wants to believe. Most people have had auditory hallucinations especially during times of stress and grief and usually around bedtime or before awakening. Its neurological.

If you think dead people are communicating to you then it might be true that a dead part of your mind is doing the talking.


Is the OP still here?

OP, you should block iyamwutiyam from your thread. The Forum rules say that he's not supposed to be here, and the rules at the beginning/top of your thread also say he should be blocked.

11/16/2014 11:55:30 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
blake6972
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,229)
Bunker Hill, WV
45, joined Jul. 2013


Quote from myrealme:
Iyam.. youre pissing me off.

Now, I don't necessarily care for kandy, but I came here to discuss not throw insults.

You are making yourself look like an ass.

Please stop.


He's not making himself look like a a** , he is a ass.

Asking that fool to stop is like asking someone to change the color of their skin, it isn't going to happen.

11/16/2014 11:57:24 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
blake6972
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,229)
Bunker Hill, WV
45, joined Jul. 2013


Quote from aphrodisianus:


Once again.
When a religious person attempts to defend their faith they wind up looking dull and dimwitted. A mindset based on lack of knowledge and lack of coherent rational thinking cannot provide actual facts. They simply make lots of noise.



Sounds like your speaking of yourself.

11/18/2014 6:10:13 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

krautguy
Over 1,000 Posts (1,342)
Ruidoso, NM
90, joined Sep. 2014


Its a "gift" from satan.

11/30/2014 10:31:52 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


I guess blake can't be a medium because he's a small.

11/30/2014 11:05:07 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
blake6972
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,229)
Bunker Hill, WV
45, joined Jul. 2013


Oh my iyam, that was totally hilarious ....

NOT...

Stick with bashing people, because you're far from being a comedian.



12/3/2014 1:41:10 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from kandykayn:
The strange phenomenon of those who claim to hear voices in their head is one negative result that happens when dealing with disembodied spirits. How you open yourself up to them I believe is within the ancient forbidden knowledge of Babylon and is the metaphoric tree of the Knowledge of good and evil the bible speaks of. The metaphor is symbolic to the fact these spirits can do good or evil and not always consistently one or the other.


No offense meant, but "disembodied spirits" is redundant, it seems to me.

12/5/2014 11:27:25 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
stregaleonora
Over 7,500 Posts!! (7,674)
Atlanta, GA
42, joined Jun. 2014


I dont know about mediums...but when a person is a bad person, I feel immediate repulsion, even if the person behave nicely in the beginning....
....maybe I am just a good body language reader?

12/9/2014 5:49:12 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from stregaleonora:
I dont know about mediums...but when a person is a bad person, I feel immediate repulsion, even if the person behave nicely in the beginning....
....maybe I am just a good body language reader?


Should work quite well if the person is alive. The medium reads dead people. I suppose dead people could have a body language that could say something like, "Hey, look at me. I'm f**king dead" but the medium doesn't even use a dead body. They use superstition, delusions and stupidity especially in those who believe in it.

12/11/2014 10:33:20 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
sweetsiren1234
Smithtown, NY
38, joined Dec. 2013


Yes I am a medium and it's easy for others to bash when they don't have the experience. Yes there is a difference between being schizo and being able to communicate with the other side. This is not something I asked for but an ability I naturally have. My hope is to develop my gifts further to help others.

12/11/2014 11:30:50 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


And that is a good hope when you hope for the good of the whole

12/11/2014 12:00:11 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
sweetsiren1234
Smithtown, NY
38, joined Dec. 2013


Quote from rufftreasure:
And that is a good hope when you hope for the good of the whole


Hey Ruff!!!! You're looking fabulous, love the new profile pic!

12/11/2014 12:10:38 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from sweetsiren1234:
Yes I am a medium and it's easy for others to bash when they don't have the experience.
That's like saying psychiatrist needs to be mentally ill or an oncologist needs to have cancer.

Yes there is a difference between being schizo and being able to communicate with the other side.
Did a psychiatrist give you this information or was it someone who is dead? There are other forms of mental illness other than schizophrenia but if you are hearing voices in your head then psychosis or possibly areas of your brain are damaged.

This is not something I asked for but an ability I naturally have. My hope is to develop my gifts further to help others.
Most people don't ask to be afflicted by any kind of pathological condition but some do because they like suffering. The superstitious religious consider all sorts of afflictions to be gifts.

12/11/2014 1:10:21 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from sweetsiren1234:
Hey Ruff!!!! You're looking fabulous, love the new profile pic!


Thank You, Sweet, it's because I'm so unbelievably, happy in my my new home!!
And who dwells within .....
How kind of you to say so!!!

12/11/2014 1:39:20 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
sweetsiren1234
Smithtown, NY
38, joined Dec. 2013


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Most people don't ask to be afflicted by any kind of pathological condition but some do because they like suffering. The superstitious religious consider all sorts of afflictions to be gifts.


It's a gift when you actually help people and bring some peace and healing into their lives...something you wouldn't know anything about Mr. Troll

12/11/2014 1:40:01 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
sweetsiren1234
Smithtown, NY
38, joined Dec. 2013


Quote from rufftreasure:
Thank You, Sweet, it's because I'm so unbelievably, happy in my my new home!!
And who dwells within .....
How kind of you to say so!!!


You're welcome hon, you are always beautiful inside and out!

12/11/2014 1:52:21 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from sweetsiren1234:
It's a gift when you actually help people and bring some peace and healing into their lives...something you wouldn't know anything about Mr. Troll


Peace from having conversations with dead people? As I said, if you're hearing voices in your head then you're mentally ill. What other explanation is there? By surrounding yourself with uneducated stupid people which are the kinds of people who believe in superstitious nonsense anyway will reinforce your delusions.




12/11/2014 7:12:36 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
sweetsiren1234
Smithtown, NY
38, joined Dec. 2013


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Peace from having conversations with dead people? As I said, if you're hearing voices in your head then you're mentally ill. What other explanation is there? By surrounding yourself with uneducated stupid people which are the kinds of people who believe in superstitious nonsense anyway will reinforce your delusions.

I don't argue with trolls. Clearly you don't understand the process and if you're so much against mediums than stop posting in this thread. Be gone troll, BE GONE!!

12/11/2014 7:46:57 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from myrealme:
There is a conduit between living and dead.. mediums. Real life good, decent people. There obviously is no hard, actual proof.

Id like to see some scientific proof that people who speak in tongues in their religion have minds that have deteriorated.




12/12/2014 11:36:02 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


A psychic asked me if I was interested in a reading. I told her if she was really psychic she wouldn't need to ask. She didn't say anything after that.

Mediums, psychics, Christians are basically emotional cripples who can't deal with reality. Some of them hear voices in their head because they're mentally ill. Others who are mentally ill believe in their hallucinations and delusions. Mental illness, brain pathology, cognitive disorders and just plain low IQ stupidity lay the foundation for religion.

12/12/2014 7:02:22 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
sweetsiren1234
Smithtown, NY
38, joined Dec. 2013


Does someone still see a troll typing?? Does the silly little troll think he is going to change someone's mind, feelings, opinions, experiences with his rhetoric?? It's time for someone to be blocked.

12/12/2014 7:29:52 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from sweetsiren1234:
Does someone still see a troll typing?? Does the silly little troll think he is going to change someone's mind, feelings , opinions, experiences with his rhetoric?? It's time for someone to be blocked.


iyamwutiyam is not supposed to be here according to the rules posted at the top of the forum. He's an argmentative atheist, yes, a troll. AND the rules at the top of the thread say that the OP should ban iyamwutiyam from the thread:

About the Forum
This forum is for people to discuss religion. It isn't for people who aren't religious to attack people who are. If religion isn't your thing then stay out of this forum.

About the thread
Note: Please make sure to keep an eye on your thread. If you see anyone causing trouble, insulting others, or breaking forum rules you must block them immediately. Click 'block user from posting' next to the user who is causing problems.This will make it so they can't post anymore in this thread. If everyone immediately blocks troublemakers then they won't have anywhere to go and will get bored and leave. If you don't block them and they fill your thread with inappropriate posts it is highly likely your thread will have to be deleted. Thanks for helping keep this place drama-free.

12/12/2014 7:54:28 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


I see

12/13/2014 2:55:16 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,647)
Saint Petersburg, FL
70, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
A psychic asked me if I was interested in a reading. I told her if she was really psychic she wouldn't need to ask. She didn't say anything after that.




Peace

12/13/2014 8:43:09 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Mental illness, brain pathology, cognitive disorders and just plain low IQ stupidity lay the foundation for religion.

Show us something from the APA or the DSM to support that view. Maybe you could use a quote from the APA Handbook of Psychology, Religion, and Spirituality.

                                                              



[Edited 12/13/2014 8:44:57 AM ]

12/13/2014 10:33:36 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


The Jerusalem Syndrome is an example of a documented mental illness yet is not specifically listed in the DSM. Neither is Religious Trauma Syndrome yet they're real mental disorders. If you knew what the DSM actually is and how its used you wouldn't ask such a stupid question. I realize you are not well educated, work closely with people who are in such professions or exposed to knowledge you can't Google. You might want to socialize in circles where folks are educated in these fields.

If you can't explain why people hear voices, see things that aren't there, have distorted reasoning and cognitive dysfunctions then you have no real grasp. The same goes not being able to explain why people who follow those who have such mental conditions. The later group is far large in scope. They're the sheeples.

Obviously there are two main choices for a medium who claims to converse with dead people. And the believe here is literally conversing. These people are not using metaphors. What are the choices? They either have a psychological and/or psychiatric disorder or they're simply lying con artists. The third choice is they're actually communicating with dead people. I'm guessing you'll pick that one.



[Edited 12/13/2014 10:34:04 AM ]

12/13/2014 12:12:59 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
The Jerusalem Syndrome is an example of a documented mental illness yet is not specifically listed in the DSM. Neither is Religious Trauma Syndrome yet they're real mental disorders.

Religious Trauma Syndrome isn't a recognized term. We discussed this on forum a few years ago. PTSD type maladies are not labelled according to their etiology. And at any rate, Marlene Winell distinguishes between healthy and unhealthy manifestations of religion and doesn't crudely condemn al religion as deriving from mental illness as you do.

If you knew what the DSM actually is and how its used you wouldn't ask such a stupid question. I realize you are not well educated, work closely with people who are in such professions or exposed to knowledge you can't Google. You might want to socialize in circles where folks are educated in these fields.

If you're educated in psychology, why is your level of discussion permanently at a crude level of personal abuse and dumb unsupported statements? Did you start to believe yourself knowledgeable about psychology after mixing socially with people who are, and your "education" isn't all from You Tube videos. Tell us more.

If you can't explain why people hear voices, see things that aren't there, have distorted reasoning and cognitive dysfunctions then you have no real grasp.

Auditory and visual hallucinations can happen to normal people and don't always denote mental illness. Distorted reasoning and cognitive dysfunctions can happen to normal people too - as evidenced by your own belief that religious people must be nuts and that you're qualified to psychiatrically diagnose people online.

The same goes not being able to explain why people who follow those who have such mental conditions. The later group is far large in scope. They're the sheeples.

Why people follow religions is probably discussed in the book I referenced there, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with mental illness. You really should educate yourself if really interested in the psychology of religion and cease pretending to be educated. No one's convinced, with the possible exception of Sail. You really ought to be embarrassed by these claims of being educated. I'm reminded of begbear, who used to behave similarly. Possible symptoms of grandiosity?

Obviously there are two main choices for a medium who claims to converse with dead people. And the believe here is literally conversing. These people are not using metaphors. What are the choices? They either have a psychological and/or psychiatric disorder or they're simply lying con artists. The third choice is they're actually communicating with dead people. I'm guessing you'll pick that one.

I haven't given it much thought, but I'd expect that some are outright fakes who are in it for personal gain, while others may have talents for empathizing with people, doing what's called "cold reading" and coming up with comforting messages from beyond. Perhaps sincere mediums have unrealized skills in human psychology and are offering a kind of useful therapy while being genuinely unaware that there's nothing supernatural involved.



[Edited 12/13/2014 12:14:54 PM ]

12/13/2014 7:21:22 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
I haven't given it much thought,
You don't because you can't.

but I'd expect that some are outright fakes who are in it for personal gain, while others may have talents for empathizing with people, doing what's called "cold reading" and coming up with comforting messages from beyond.
What messages from what beyond? Cold reading is essentially bullshitting while hearing hallucinatory voices is from a mental disorder, the kind "normal" people don't have but you can't tell the difference. You lack of any level of study that is typical of someone being willfully ignorant and done quite religiously. What you don't know is that normal people have hallucinations very rarely and under special conditions. People that have them regularly are suffering a pathology which you couldn't know. Regularly enough to sustain beliefs in religious visions (visual hallucinations) and voices in the head from the dead (auditory hallucinations).

Perhaps sincere mediums have unrealized skills in human psychology
You mean like a thug who studies his mark to find weakness in very much the same way predatory animals know the "psychology" of when to attack. Poor usage of the term "human psychology". You trying to make a point?

12/13/2014 8:53:08 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
I haven't given it much thought,

Quote from clarencec:
You don't because you can't.

You ought to see someone about believing you have special insight into the mental capabilities of others. It may not be mere trollery. You could be delusional.
Quote from iyamwutiyam:
What messages from what beyond?

Imaginary or misidentified ones. It's not unreasonable to think that there may be mediums who are sincere but mistaken in believing they can channel messages from "the other side".

Cold reading is essentially bullshitting while hearing hallucinatory voices is from a mental disorder, the kind "normal" people don't have but you can't tell the difference.

I haven't heard of mediums hearing hallucinatory voices. Do you have any evidence of this as someone who claims to be highly knowledgeable of the subject? My understanding is that mediums have feelings and impressions - probably much like how religious people claim to have feelings and impressions from God or the Holy Spirit. Thoughts occur to them over which they have no control which they interpret as messages from beyond. According to experiments, the brain shows electrical activity before we're even aware of experiencing a particular thought, which casts doubt on notions that we are the authors of our own thoughts. Just think, even your useless heckling may not emanate from what you think of as yourself, but could be completely the result of background causes of which you're totally unaware and cannot control. This applies to my warblings too of course, but how nice to be actually aware of this possibility.

You lack of any level of study that is typical of someone being willfully ignorant and done quite religiously.

Yes, you decry the educational level of everyone who challenges you like some kind of crudely programmed ad hom grade robot. But you truly don't sound well educated. A well educated person would rely on the strength of their arguments and not put-downs of their debate opponent.

What you don't know is that normal people have hallucinations very rarely and under special conditions. People that have them regularly are suffering a pathology which you couldn't know. Regularly enough to sustain beliefs in religious visions (visual hallucinations) and voices in the head from the dead (auditory hallucinations).

That's all academic because we haven't established that mediums experience their contact with the other side as visual or auditory hallucinations, and don't simply have thoughts that occur without their conscious control pretty much as we all do, but perhaps are more aware that they aren't in control of their thoughts, and consequently attribute them to outside influences of supernatural origin.

Quote from clarencec:
Perhaps sincere mediums have unrealized skills in human psychology

Quote from iyamwutiyam:
You mean like a thug who studies his mark to find weakness in very much the same way predatory animals know the "psychology" of when to attack. Poor usage of the term "human psychology". You trying to make a point?

I'm making a distinction between mediums who are deliberately faking for fame & fortune, and the ones who sincerely believe themselves to be in touch with "spirits" or whatever it is. Are you employing your famous fake psychiatrist skills and saying they're all fakes who know what they're doing?



[Edited 12/13/2014 8:55:00 PM ]

12/13/2014 9:23:15 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 
blake6972
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (32,229)
Bunker Hill, WV
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Well articulated Clarence.


12/13/2014 9:51:18 PMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
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I will echo that, Blake

12/14/2014 4:22:37 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,647)
Saint Petersburg, FL
70, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from clarencec:
You ought to see someone about believing you have special insight into the mental capabilities of others. It may not be mere trollery. You could be delusional.


Clarence, why do you allow yourself to determine things to be delusional/non-delusional when religion and spirituality is concerned.

What if religion had never been introduced into society some 5,000+ years in the past ..... and ..... had only been introduced within the last century and a half?

There would be a much smaller number of people believing in religious/spiritual dogmas if that were the case ..... wouldn't there?

Would you still contend that these people are not harboring delusions? And that these delusions which triggered the Native American Genocide ..... Hebrew Holocaust ..... and ..... the witch trials are harmless to humankind?

Religious dogma can effect individuals in different ways ..... it should not change the meaning of being delusional. There are many people that can function quite well under religious influences ..... this does not mean that the belief in religious deities is not delusional ..... just that these people are not currently dangerous to themselves and others.

Lets take Harvey the six foot rabbit as an example. Harvey was Elwood P. Dowd's personal pooka. As it turns out ..... since Elwood's belief in Harvey did not post harm to himself or others ..... Elmer escaped being committed to a mental institution.

Does this mean that Elwood did not harbor delusions of a six foot invisible rabbit? ..... of course not! It just meant that Elwood's delusion were not dangerous.

I look upon religious and spiritual delusions in the same way ..... my problem is that the religious and spiritual followers have changed the definition of delusional. Simply because of the number of religious followers ..... religious delusions and spiritual delusions are no longer considered delusions ..... but ignored to keep peace with religious fanatics.

Not all religious followers are mentally ill ..... many, however, are and do post dangers to themselves and others. Drugs are controlled simply because they may be beneficial to the sick but can also be habit forming and lead to addiction/death. Why should something like religion be looked upon any differently than how we look upon drug use?

I just think it is about time to expose religion for what it truly is and take steps to educate the public with the dangers religious dogma exposes humanity to. Let's just stop trying to sugar coat the facts concerning religious and spiritual mental addiction.

Peace

12/14/2014 7:54:20 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
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Imaginary or misidentified ones. It's not unreasonable to think that there may be mediums who are sincere but mistaken in believing they can channel messages from "the other side".


I haven't heard of mediums hearing hallucinatory voices.
Ignorance is bliss.
and....
My understanding is that mediums have feelings and impressions - probably much like how religious people claim to have feelings and impressions from God or the Holy Spirit.


Your logic is disordered and self contradictory. Religious people love this which why you'll be voted as the Atheist Messiah of the Religion forum.

Yes, you decry the educational level of everyone who challenges you like some kind of crudely programmed ad hom grade robot. But you truly don't sound well educated. A well educated person would rely on the strength of their arguments and not put-downs of their debate opponent.
Telling someone that they're not well educated isn't really a put down as much as its a let down.


That's all academic because we haven't established that mediums experience their contact with the other side as visual or auditory hallucinations,
Again ignorance is bliss but such cognitive distortions aren't limited to only auditory and visual.

and don't simply have thoughts that occur without their conscious control pretty much as we all do,
Pretty much as we all do. Can you expand on your own out of control thought processes? This does lead into an area of concern. Do you know why?

but perhaps are more aware that they aren't in control of their thoughts, and consequently attribute them to outside influences of supernatural origin.
Bingo!! You've zoomed on the problem without being aware. There is a diagnosis for it. As for your poor usage understanding of the problem by your usage of the word "attribute" is because you do not know much about processes leading to what you consider attributions.

I guess the term to describe you is useful idiot but you might consider that a put down so I'll just say for the sake of PC is that you're unaware



12/14/2014 8:19:48 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
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At least Clarencec is making an attempt to be fair in looking at all angles, unlike those who choose to belittle everything and everyone they do not agree with.

12/14/2014 8:28:32 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
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Quote from rufftreasure:
At least Clarencec is making an attempt to be fair in looking at all angles, unlike those who choose to belittle everything and everyone they do not agree with.

I could say you're a hypocrite being short sighted given that Clarance is attempting to belittle being in such denial. The fact is Clarence being "fair" to the imaginary, delusional, non-existent and pathological roots in the realms of superstition that wholly lack any substance in the real world is just a way to elevate himself as the atheist savior of the religious forum. I'm wondering if begbear was an inspiration to him.



[Edited 12/14/2014 8:30:01 AM ]

12/14/2014 9:06:01 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
Bingo!! You've zoomed on the problem without being aware. There is a diagnosis for it. As for your poor usage understanding of the problem by your usage of the word "attribute" is because you do not know much about processes leading to what you consider attributions.

I guess the term to describe you is useful idiot but you might consider that a put down so I'll just say for the sake of PC is that you're unaware


You could have just stated you have nothing worthwhile to say on the subject and saved yourself all that typing.

12/14/2014 9:32:13 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

iyamwutiyam
Over 7,500 Posts!! (9,888)
Middelfart
Denmark
49, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
You could have just stated you have nothing worthwhile to say on the subject and saved yourself all that typing.


Yeah, I see a typo but hey, you really don't know how such attributions are made. You simply don't and can't respond to any of it because you're too busy with your hobby.

12/14/2014 9:52:25 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from iyamwutiyam:
I could say you're a hypocrite being short sighted given that Clarance is attempting to belittle being in such denial. The fact is Clarence being "fair" to the imaginary, delusional, non-existent and pathological roots in the realms of superstition that wholly lack any substance in the real world is just a way to elevate himself as the atheist savior of the religious forum. I'm wondering if begbear was an inspiration to him.


Well whatever, so to keep it short, sweet and to the point,

I'm havin fun with it, and please don't mistake this as a put down cuz, I actually like you!!!

12/15/2014 9:55:57 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
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60, joined Oct. 2008


.
Quote from sail_dancer:
Clarence, why do you allow yourself to determine things to be delusional/non-delusional when religion and spirituality is concerned.

I'm no expert and feel content to rely on expert opinion on what constitutes delusions in a clinical sense. Feel free to cite some, but use a mainstream source like the DSM or other APA literature.

Oh wait, I'll do it for you:

APA Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM IV-TR, p. 821) says about delusion:

A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture (e.g., it is not an article of religious faith).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-j-rossano/why-religion-is-emnotem-d_b_611148.html

I sourced that from a Huff Post article tited "Why Religion Is Not Delusion" written by a Professor of Psychology at Louisiana University. A well reasoned piece .

What if religion had never been introduced into society some 5,000+ years in the past ..... and ..... had only been introduced within the last century and a half?

Was religion "introduced" or is it a natural outgrowth of the brain's theory of mind and language abilities? Perhaps if these abilities had only begun to manifest themselves in the last century and a half, we wouldn't have religion, but nor would we be mentally developed enough to have any other kind of imaginative fiction, which would be a shame.

Would you still contend that these people are not harboring delusions? And that these delusions which triggered the Native American Genocide ..... Hebrew Holocaust ..... and ..... the witch trials are harmless to humankind?

No, I think a delusional belief indicative of mental illness can't just be any mistaken belief system we disapprove of that leads to human casualties, or we could call political beliefs delusional too. Oh wait, supporters of America's two political parties do that with each other on CE&P all the time. Liberals are commonly addressed there as "libtards".

Religious dogma can effect individuals in different ways ..... it should not change the meaning of being delusional. There are many people that can function quite well under religious influences ..... this does not mean that the belief in religious deities is not delusional ..... just that these people are not currently dangerous to themselves and others.

I don't think belief in deities is delusional in a clinical sense - no more than other irrational things people believe, such as the belief among many Americans that personal ownership of firearms creates a safer society. Like religion, this belief is inculcated by how cultural traditions have developed and how public opinion is manipulated by business interests that benefit from people holding those beliefs. Separating religion out from other manifestations of human irrationality and demonizing its adherents is simplistic and flawed. It's as simplistic an approach as the fundamentalists who treat ancient religious texts as if they're literally true.

Lets take Harvey the six foot rabbit as an example. Harvey was Elwood P. Dowd's personal pooka. As it turns out ..... since Elwood's belief in Harvey did not post harm to himself or others ..... Elmer escaped being committed to a mental institution.

Does this mean that Elwood did not harbor delusions of a six foot invisible rabbit? ..... of course not! It just meant that Elwood's delusion were not dangerous.

Religious people don't usually have delusions in a clinical sense where they interact with invisible entities as if they're present in the room. They may have feelings that Jesus or God or the Holy Spirit or angels are guiding them in life and producing beneficial effects, such as answering prayers or healing illnesses.

I look upon religious and spiritual delusions in the same way ..... my problem is that the religious and spiritual followers have changed the definition of delusional. Simply because of the number of religious followers ..... religious delusions and spiritual delusions are no longer considered delusions ..... but ignored to keep peace with religious fanatics.

I wouldn't be surprised if delusions resulting from mental illness sometimes pass under the radar by being masked by a religious theme, but most religious people don't suffer from delusions caused by mental pathology. Religious beliefs are usually held by normal people and are inherited from religious parents.

Not all religious followers are mentally ill ..... many, however, are and do post dangers to themselves and others. Drugs are controlled simply because they may be beneficial to the sick but can also be habit forming and lead to addiction/death. Why should something like religion be looked upon any differently than how we look upon drug use?

Because, like drugs, religion can have both beneficial and detrimental effects on individuals and communities. It's too broad brush, crude and simplistic to say religion is bad because some people sometimes behave badly in religion inspired ways.

I just think it is about time to expose religion for what it truly is and take steps to educate the public with the dangers religious dogma exposes humanity to. Let's just stop trying to sugar coat the facts concerning religious and spiritual mental addiction.

I think religion is a fairly immovable aspect of human behaviour, like politics, and eradicating it by heckling people as nuts is unrealistic and misguided. It's like taking protest placards to the seashore and heckling Poseidon for causing maritime disasters.



[Edited 12/15/2014 9:57:42 AM ]

12/15/2014 10:57:35 AMBeing a medium | Page 3 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


You always make more sense to me than most!!! Clarencec
Great reasoning, logic, compassion, and in my opinion ,love for others!!!!

To me despite being an atheist, you are still a spiritual human being.



[Edited 12/15/2014 10:58:44 AM ]