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11/26/2014 5:11:18 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:


So according to what you say one's conduct in this life doesn't matter at all? And in essence it was God's fault for Hitler's murderous actions because God didn't send Hitler a timely messenger with enlightenment?



Conduct is everything. God will make hitler his student. Heaven is more than just a reward. It's a high functioning organic utopia, everyone was created with a job. Hitler just needs to find his niche, he can be an artist or whatever he wants. As long as he's suplied for with logic and never kills with ignorance again. Would you banish ignorance from the temple? No, you would nurture and chasten it and watch as it blossoms into beautiful omniscience. Do as Jesus said and love thy enemy. Peace is upon you.

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11/26/2014 5:14:11 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


1 Thessalonians 5:9

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

11/26/2014 6:00:34 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
slowpoke7
Over 2,000 Posts (2,716)
Hendersonville, TN
77, joined Feb. 2011






[Edited 11/26/2014 6:01:13 PM ]

11/26/2014 7:19:27 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
Conduct is everything. God will make hitler his student. Heaven is more than just a reward. It's a high functioning organic utopia, everyone was created with a job. Hitler just needs to find his niche, he can be an artist or whatever he wants. As long as he's suplied for with logic and never kills with ignorance again. Would you banish ignorance from the temple? No, you would nurture and chasten it and watch as it blossoms into beautiful omniscience. Do as Jesus said and love thy enemy. Peace is upon you.

You are very mixed up, max. Hitler did not have millions of people killed and/or exterminated in gas chambers because he lacked logic or was ignorant. That's just NUTS. Hitler was obsessed with power and he sought to create a German master race by killing everyone who opposed his actions or who he considered racially inferior. Hitler wasn't ignorant, max, Hitler was evil, wicked, depraved and CORRUPT and you saying he was "merely lost" and just needed "to find his niche" is ludicrous.

11/26/2014 8:49:42 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
You are very mixed up, max. Hitler did not have millions of people killed and/or exterminated in gas chambers because he lacked logic or was ignorant. That's just NUTS. Hitler was obsessed with power and he sought to create a German master race by killing everyone who opposed his actions or who he considered racially inferior. Hitler wasn't ignorant, max, Hitler was evil, wicked, depraved and CORRUPT and you saying he was "merely lost" and just needed "to find his niche" is ludicrous.


You think Hitlers genocide was logical? If he knew better he would be better case closed. Just show him the light.



[Edited 11/26/2014 8:51:00 PM ]

11/27/2014 1:22:11 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from kb2222:
You are very mixed up, max. Hitler did not have millions of people killed and/or exterminated in gas chambers because he lacked logic or was ignorant. That's just NUTS. Hitler was obsessed with power and he sought to create a German master race by killing everyone who opposed his actions or who he considered racially inferior. Hitler wasn't ignorant, max, Hitler was evil, wicked, depraved and CORRUPT and you saying he was "merely lost" and just needed "to find his niche" is ludicrous.

Quote from maxwalbridge:
You think Hitlers genocide was logical? If he knew better he would be better case closed. Just show him the light.


Max may have a point, kb. We don't know what Hitler's state of mind was, or what his motives were. That doesn't mean that organized societies can't take action against such as Hitler, but as far as the eternal goes, we'd better wait for a different judge to settle that.

"Your fellows must judge you by what you did, but there is a Judge to whom you may appeal for forgiveness, and who will judge you by your real motives and better intentions. You need not fear to meet the judgment of God if your repentance is genuine and your faith sincere. The fact that your error carries with it the death penalty imposed by man does not prejudice the chance of your soul to obtain justice and enjoy mercy before the heavenly courts.” Jesus to the criminal on the cross in The Urantia Book



[Edited 11/27/2014 1:25:29 AM ]

11/27/2014 3:40:57 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,647)
Saint Petersburg, FL
70, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from kb2222:

Hitler wasn't ignorant, max, Hitler was evil, wicked, depraved and CORRUPT and you saying he was "merely lost" and just needed "to find his niche" is ludicrous.


You left out the fact that he was religious ..... christian that is.

Peace

11/27/2014 10:17:34 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
You think Hitlers genocide was logical?

Of course NOT. And I don't think you are the least logical either in claiming Hitler was just "lost" and "ignorant" and needed "to find his niche" and that God should have sent him a "messenger with enlightenment." As I said: Hitler was obsessed with power and he sought to create a German master race by killing everyone who opposed his actions or who he considered racially inferior. Hitler wasn't ignorant, max, Hitler was evil, wicked, depraved and CORRUPT.

If he knew better he would be better case closed. Just show him the light.

Hitler knew better, max. But he became so obsessed with power and iniquitous that the only thing that mattered to him was what he wanted and he didn't care what he had to do to get it.

11/27/2014 10:41:16 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from kb2222:
Hitler was obsessed with power and he sought to create a German master race by killing everyone who opposed his actions or who he considered racially inferior.

Hitler had something in common with the Urantia book author(s) in this respect. Both believed in bogus theories of racial superiority and inferiority that were current in the early 20th century.

                        

11/27/2014 11:47:48 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
Hitler had something in common with the Urantia book author(s) in this respect. Both believed in bogus theories of racial superiority and inferiority that were current in the early 20th century.


Clarencec, there is nothing wrong with civilization concerning itself with racial improvement in an intelligent and humane fashion which Hitler didn't give a damn about. And it is because of your disbelief and contempt for God and all things spiritual that you keep misrepresenting what the UB says about racial improvement by associating it with the horrible extermination policies of Hitler.

Some UB quotes:

(725.7) 64:6.26 Isolated in Africa, the indigo peoples, like the red man, received little or none of the race elevation which would have been derived from the infusion of the Adamic stock. Alone in Africa, the indigo race made little advancement until the days of Orvonon, when they experienced a great spiritual awakening. While they later almost entirely forgot the “God of Gods” proclaimed by Orvonon, they did not entirely lose the desire to worship the Unknown; at least they maintained a form of worship up to a few thousand years ago.

(725.8) 64:6.27 Notwithstanding their backwardness, these indigo peoples have exactly the same standing before the celestial powers as any other earthly race.

(725.9) 64:6.28 These were ages of intense struggles between the various races, but near the headquarters of the Planetary Prince the more enlightened and more recently taught groups lived together in comparative harmony, though no great cultural conquest of the world races had been achieved up to the time of the serious disruption of this regime by the outbreak of the Lucifer rebellion.

(726.1) 64:6.29 From time to time all of these different peoples experienced cultural and spiritual revivals. Mansant was a great teacher of the post-Planetary Prince days. But mention is made only of those outstanding leaders and teachers who markedly influenced and inspired a whole race. With the passing of time, many lesser teachers arose in different regions; and in the aggregate they contributed much to the sum total of those saving influences which prevented the total collapse of cultural civilization, especially during the long and dark ages between the Caligastia rebellion and the arrival of Adam.

(726.2) 64:6.30 There are many good and sufficient reasons for the plan of evolving either three or six colored races on the worlds of space. Though Urantia mortals may not be in a position fully to appreciate all of these reasons, we would call attention to the following:

(726.3) 64:6.31 1. Variety is indispensable to opportunity for the wide functioning of natural selection, differential survival of superior strains.

(726.4) 64:6.32 2. Stronger and better races are to be had from the interbreeding of diverse peoples when these different races are carriers of superior inheritance factors. And the Urantia races would have benefited by such an early amalgamation provided such a conjoint people could have been subsequently effectively upstepped by a thoroughgoing admixture with the superior Adamic stock. The attempt to execute such an experiment on Urantia under present racial conditions would be highly disastrous.

738.1) 65:6.8 Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas. The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable. Aside from the presence of the Unqualified Absolute, electrical and chemical reactions are predictable. But mind can profit from experience, can learn from reactive habits of behavior in response to repetition of stimuli.

(738.2) 65:6.9 Preintelligent organisms react to environmental stimuli, but those organisms which are reactive to mind ministry can adjust and manipulate the environment itself.

(738.3) 65:6.10 The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.

(736.6) 65:5.3 The universe of universes, including this small world called Urantia, is not being managed merely to meet our approval nor just to suit our convenience, much less to gratify our whims and satisfy our curiosity. The wise and all-powerful beings who are responsible for universe management undoubtedly know exactly what they are about; and so it becomes Life Carriers and behooves mortal minds to enlist in patient waiting and hearty co-operation with the rule of wisdom, the reign of power, and the march of progress.

11/27/2014 11:58:59 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Hitler knew better, max. But he became so obsessed with power and iniquitous that the only thing that mattered to him was what he wanted and he didn't care what he had to do to get it.


You think people want to kill and torture? Your a sick puppy. You think people who comit genocide are logical and know what they are doing. Hitler was sick. Plenty of people are sick. Peace and knowledge is the remedy it will make us all feel good and have us singing kumbayah. Forgiveness, no?



[Edited 11/27/2014 12:00:50 PM ]

11/27/2014 12:04:37 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from kb2222:
Clarencec, there is nothing wrong with civilization concerning itself with racial improvement in an intelligent and humane fashion which Hitler didn't give a damn about.

There certainly is a lot wrong with it, given that there's no scientific support for such a notion as "race improvement", which is no more than selective breeding for traits considered desirable by whoever is performing the selective process - in this case a tiny, obscure and eccentric religious cult.

And it is because of your disbelief and contempt for God and all things spiritual that you keep misrepresenting what the UB says about racial improvement by associating it with the horrible extermination policies of Hitler.

My disbelief in God/s is only tangentially connected with my rejection of the UB's outdated and false ideas about so-called "race improvement". Many people who believe in God/s would also vociferously reject it as a steaming crock of .

11/27/2014 12:25:10 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Clarencec, there is nothing wrong with civilization concerning itself with racial improvement in an intelligent and humane fashion which Hitler didn't give a damn about. And it is because of your disbelief and contempt for God and all things spiritual that you keep misrepresenting what the UB says about racial improvement by associating it with the horrible extermination policies of Hitler.


So you would agree Hitler was aweful but God to would be aweful to exterminate him for his finite crime. I'm not sayin Adolfo Hitler as a moral man, but God would be evil too if he did the same thing even out of vengeance or karma.



[Edited 11/27/2014 12:27:36 PM ]

11/27/2014 12:31:50 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
So you would agree Hitler was aweful but God to would be aweful to exterminate him for his finite crime. I'm not sayin Adolfo Hitler as a moral man, but God would be evil too if he did the same thing even out of vengeance or karma.

Obviously, you don't believe in accountability for your actions and just as obvious is that Hitler didn't either. Hitler embraced iniquity instead of God's will of love and service and such decisions have there consequences. Sorry, if you don't like it.

11/27/2014 12:34:07 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Obviously, you don't believe in accountability for your actions and just as obvious is that Hitler didn't either. Hitler embraced iniquity instead of God's will of love and service and such decisions have there consequences. Sorry, if you don't like it.


Yet forgiveness is always an open door.

I have good conduct, just a little blue at this time. Accountability is everything and Hitler lacked it, but God is a teacher. I am confident Aolf will be a pure man when I find him in the universal Heaven when end ends and eternity begins forevermore.



[Edited 11/27/2014 12:36:44 PM ]

11/27/2014 1:07:16 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
Yet forgiveness is always an open door.

I have good conduct, just a little blue at this time. Accountability is everything and Hitler lacked it, but God is a teacher. I am confident Aolf will be a pure man when I find him in the universal Heaven when end ends and eternity begins forevermore.

The Holy Spirit is God's teacher and Hitler was not the least receptive to its promptings. In other words, Hitler rendered himself spiritually dead. Sorry, if you can't bring yourself to accept that God doesn't forgive the unrepentant.

11/27/2014 1:40:26 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
My disbelief in God/s is only tangentially connected with my rejection of the UB's outdated and false ideas about so-called "race improvement". Many people who believe in God/s would also vociferously reject it as a steaming crock of .

Wake up Clarencec, your contemptuous disbelief in God is so severe that it apparently renders you unwilling to even consider all of what I post. Here I will partially repeat:

738.1) 65:6.8 Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas. The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable. Aside from the presence of the Unqualified Absolute, electrical and chemical reactions are predictable. But mind can profit from experience, can learn from reactive habits of behavior in response to repetition of stimuli.

(738.2) 65:6.9 Preintelligent organisms react to environmental stimuli, but those organisms which are reactive to mind ministry can adjust and manipulate the environment itself.

(738.3) 65:6.10 The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.

Please give your thoughts on the above, clarencec.

And what exactly is your objection to "race improvement"?

11/27/2014 2:12:37 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


It's dishonest to take out of context material from The Urantia Book and put it in Hitler's mouth. It's clever and a powerful tactic, I certainly understand that, but it's dishonest and unethical.

Quote from clarencec:
Hitler had something in common with the Urantia book author(s) in this respect. Both believed in bogus theories of racial superiority and inferiority that were current in the early 20th century.

                        


11/27/2014 2:24:40 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
The Holy Spirit is God's teacher and Hitler was not the least receptive to its promptings. In other words, Hitler rendered himself spiritually dead. Sorry, if you can't bring yourself to accept that God doesn't forgive the unrepentant.


Just show him how he will understand and all will be well for God and his Chilldren.



[Edited 11/27/2014 2:25:00 PM ]

11/27/2014 2:38:21 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
Just show him how he will understand and all will be well for God and his Chilldren.



11/27/2014 2:49:15 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:




11/27/2014 2:59:35 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:

Can you even explain what you mean in saying..."Just show him how he will understand and all will be well for God and his Chilldren."?

11/27/2014 3:14:26 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Can you even explain what you mean in saying..."Just show him how he will understand and all will be well for God and his Chilldren."?


If he we show him how to love we will al be safe a duh.

11/27/2014 3:22:15 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from maxwalbridge:
If he we show him how to love we will al be safe a duh.



11/27/2014 6:12:32 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Isaiah 2:4 They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Isaiah 11:6-9The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

11/27/2014 6:38:33 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


And this OT scripture pertains to Hitler how, max?

11/27/2014 6:46:58 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Clarence, you're a prisoner of political correctness. It's actually a form of indoctrination. There ARE superior and inferior people and peoples. Not everyone can run as fast or think as well or sing as well or play chess as well, and so on and so forth. So, we're not all equal in reality, except spiritually. In that way we are all equal. Otherwise, not so much. But The Urantia Book is talking about the improvement of ALL races, of all mankind. Why are you against improving the human condition? That makes no sense. And no, The Urantia Book is not particularly concerned with "racial superiority" in the 20th or 21st centuries. In fact, I don't think it's concerned with racial superiority at this time, at all. Nevertheless, the races are not all the same. It's childish to think that they are. What is all the same in this world? Nothing, that's what.

Quote from clarencec:
Hitler had something in common with the Urantia book author(s) in this respect. Both believed in bogus theories of racial superiority and inferiority that were current in the early 20th century.

11/27/2014 7:33:43 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Sadly, this is Clarence's forte:

Godwin's law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mike Godwin (2010)
Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—? that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.
Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin's Law originally referred, specifically, to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles and other rhetoric.[5][6]
In 2012, "Godwin's Law" became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English.

11/27/2014 7:54:29 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from kb2222:
Wake up Clarencec, your contemptuous disbelief in God is so severe that it apparently renders you unwilling to even consider all of what I post. Here I will partially repeat:

No, my disbelief in God/s has little to do with my contempt for the dreadful literature you insist on posting that couldn't possibly have originated from the minds of allegedly superior beings.

And what exactly is your objection to "race improvement"?

Just as there are no inferior or superior species in the eyes of evolution, but only species that are more or less well adapted to a particular living environment, there are also no superior or inferior varieties or races within a single species (although Charles Darwin does use the terms "inferior" and "superior" in The Origin of Species to describe how natural selection operates on competing varieties in nature). White people aren't superior to black people as the UB preaches. Human groups who build complex urban civilisations, split the atom and fly to the Moon are not superior to hunter gatherer societies who do none of these things. Groups who believe in dodgy religious ideologies such as the one represented in the UB are not superior to groups who don't - in fact the opposite is arguably true and on average opposers of such ideologies are almost certainly more rational, although I suppose whether or not reason and rationality are desirable traits is debatable. I believe they are, because rational and reasonable people tend to admire fairness and oppose faulty ideologies. If the arguments of rationalists prevail, this bodes for better outcomes in the future of the world. So just as I wouldn't like to see something similar to Hitler's racist ideology gain ascendancy again in modernity, I wouldn't like to see the UB's Frankensteinian construct of failed science and mangled Christianity become more popular either, although I don't seriously think it will happen unless people become stupider, which is a possibility I s'pose, but one that I prefer to be optimistic about and believe probably won't happen.

11/27/2014 10:07:51 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
And this OT scripture pertains to Hitler how, max?


The world will be at peace. The Hitlers of the world will understand finally.

11/28/2014 9:21:23 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


.
Quote from furchizedek:
Clarence, you're a prisoner of political correctness. It's actually a form of indoctrination.

Political correctness or political correctitude (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term used by some conservatives to describe the attitude or policy of being careful not to offend or upset any group of people in society who are believed to have a disadvantage. ~ Wiki

I agree with the Wiki definition. Political correctness is used as a pejorative term by conservatives who would prefer to live in a society where their faction dominates and other groups can be freely victimized by the use of hate speech and other discriminatory treatment.

The UB does have sections that reflect such American extreme conservative values, such as the passage advocating that compassion and altruism is wasted on those who have fallen into dire life circumstances and are adjudged by the author(s) to have "lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright". I'm assuming the author(s) mean people like prostitutes, destitutes, alcoholics, the long term unemployed and the disabled - the sorts of people Jesus reputedly spent all his time with and who he preached would inherit the kingdom of God.

(592.2) 52:2.9 The races are purified and brought up to a high state of physical perfection and intellectual strength before the end of this era. The early development of a normal world is greatly helped by the plan of promoting the increase of the higher types of mortals with proportionate curtailment of the lower. And it is the failure of your early peoples to thus discriminate between these types that accounts for the presence of so many defective and degenerate individuals among the present-day Urantia races.

(592.3) 52:2.10 One of the great achievements of the age of the prince is this restriction of the multiplication of mentally defective and socially unfit individuals. Long before the times of the arrival of the second Sons, the Adams, most worlds seriously address themselves to the tasks of race purification, something which the Urantia peoples have not even yet seriously undertaken.

(592.4) 52:2.11 This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks.

(592.5) 52:2.12 It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.




[Edited 11/28/2014 9:21:36 AM ]

11/28/2014 9:21:47 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


.
There ARE superior and inferior people and peoples. Not everyone can run as fast or think as well or sing as well or play chess as well, and so on and so forth.

The UB doesn't distinguish between individual differences in that way and say some people are more gifted in some areas than others. It categorically denounces groups of people such as the African bushmen as inferior to other groups based on their colour and on prejudice against their societal models and level of urbanization and technology. The prejudice shown is consistent with authorship by a racist conservative minded European derived white male living in the early 20th century.

So, we're not all equal in reality, except spiritually. In that way we are all equal. Otherwise, not so much.

The UB does not deem people as equal "spiritually", whatever that slippery term means. We are told that but for the lack of "competent judges" it would be a good thing for some people to be "biologically disfellowshiped" - meaning removal of their contribution to the gene pool. In a Chapter titled The Era of Light and Life, we are told this actually happens on advanced planets settled in light and life, where "selective reproduction" takes place for traits of intelligence and spirituality This means that despite all the describing of intelligent humanoids as "will creatures", there's no true freewill in the UB worldview, and people who believe like you and KB are ultimately created by selective breeding in just the same way that wolves have been moulded into Lhasa Apsos and other toy dog breeds over generations. It would be chilling if true, but I don't think there's the slightest chance of that. It does highlight the book's philosophical clunkiness though that despite banging on endlessly about the value of freewill it propounds the notion that people who embrace ideological orthodoxy are ultimately created artificially by deliberate manipulation of hereditary traits.

But The Urantia Book is talking about the improvement of ALL races, of all mankind. Why are you against improving the human condition?

Because I don't agree with the UB author(s) subjective opinion of what constitutes the right sort of people who should be reproductively encouraged at the expense of other groups. The author(s) aren't just talking about the elimination of physical disease - they favour selection for psychological characters that they deem desirable. This attitude strikes at the heart of notions about human freedom and equality, and is reminiscent of the ideas explored in George Orwell's novel 1984, which describes the ultimate development of totalitarian ideology whereby the perpetuation of power by a shadowy ruling elite is sought by restricting the range of human language so that heretical thought become impossible.

This is reminiscent of what we're assured takes place on planets "settled in light and life" - it's a boot stamping on a human face forever, but enacted in a bloodless, sanitized manner by the instrument of selective breeding.

(630.6) 55:6.3 On a normal world the biologic fitness of the mortal race was long since brought up to a high level during the post-Adamic epochs; and now, from age to age throughout the settled eras the physical evolution of man continues. Both vision and hearing are extended. By now the population has become stationary in numbers. Reproduction is regulated in accordance with planetary requirements and innate hereditary endowments: The mortals on a planet during this age are divided into from five to ten groups, and the lower groups are permitted to produce only one half as many children as the higher. The continued improvement of such a magnificent race throughout the era of light and life is largely a matter of the selective reproduction of those racial strains which exhibit superior qualities of a social, philosophic, cosmic, and spiritual nature.



[Edited 11/28/2014 9:23:30 AM ]

11/28/2014 10:04:44 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from kb2222:
Wake up Clarencec, your contemptuous disbelief in God is so severe that it apparently renders you unwilling to even consider all of what I post. Here I will partially repeat:

738.1) 65:6.8 Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas. The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable. Aside from the presence of the Unqualified Absolute, electrical and chemical reactions are predictable. But mind can profit from experience, can learn from reactive habits of behavior in response to repetition of stimuli.

(738.2) 65:6.9 Preintelligent organisms react to environmental stimuli, but those organisms which are reactive to mind ministry can adjust and manipulate the environment itself.

(738.3) 65:6.10 The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.

Please give your thoughts on the above, clarencec.


11/28/2014 10:07:35 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from kb2222:
Please give your thoughts on the above, clarencec.

Uninteresting gobbledegook. What are your thoughts? Why post it?

11/28/2014 11:10:24 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,853)
Waldron, AR
71, joined Jul. 2014


(592.4) 52:2.11 This problem of race improvement is not such an extensive undertaking when it is attacked at this early date in human evolution. The preceding period of tribal struggles and rugged competition in race survival has weeded out most of the abnormal and defective strains. An idiot does not have much chance of survival in a primitive and warring tribal social organization. It is the false sentiment of your partially perfected civilizations that fosters, protects, and perpetuates the hopelessly defective strains of evolutionary human stocks.


That certainly smacks of A.Hitlers final solution during the 1930's doesn't it?

Forced Sterilizations

The "Sterilization Law" explained the importance of weeding out so-called genetic defects from the total German gene pool:

Since the National Revolution public opinion has become increasingly preoccupied with questions of demographic policy and the continuing decline in the birthrate. However, it is not only the decline in population which is a cause for serious concern but equally the increasingly evident genetic composition of our people. Whereas the hereditarily healthy families have for the most part adopted a policy of having only one or two children, countless numbers of inferiors and those suffering from hereditary conditions are reproducing unrestrainedly while their sick and asocial offspring burden the community.

Some scientists and physicians opposed the involuntary aspect of the law while others pointed to possible flaws. But the designation of specific conditions as inherited, and the desire to eliminate such illnesses or handicaps from the population, generally reflected the scientific and medical thinking of the day in Germany and elsewhere.

Nazi Germany was not the first or only country to sterilize people considered "abnormal." Before Hitler, the United States led the world in forced sterilizations. Between 1907 and 1939, more than 30,000 people in twenty-nine states were sterilized, many of them unknowingly or against their will, while they were incarcerated in prisons or institutions for the mentally ill. Nearly half the operations were carried out in California. Advocates of sterilization policies in both Germany and the United States were influenced by eugenics. This sociobiological theory took Charles Darwin's principle of natural selection and applied it to society. Eugenicists believed the human race could be improved by controlled breeding.

Still, no nation carried sterilization as far as Hitler's Germany. The forced sterilizations began in January 1934, and altogether an estimated 300,000 to 400,000 people were sterilized under the law. A diagnosis of "feeblemindedness" provided the grounds in the majority of cases, followed by schizophrenia and epilepsy. The usual method of sterilization was vasectomy and ligation of ovarian tubes of women. Irradiation (x-rays or radium) was used in a small number of cases. Several thousand people died as a result of the operations, women disproportionately because of the greater risks of tubal ligation.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/disabled.html



[Edited 11/28/2014 11:11:38 AM ]

11/28/2014 11:17:58 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
Uninteresting gobbledegook. What are your thoughts? Why post it?

You call it "Uninteresting gobbledegook" because you can't refute what it says, i.e. "Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas" and you know it. As I have said before, clarencec, you are a egotistical smart a** that thinks you are so smart that you have convinced yourself that you know God doesn't exist yet you are so irrational and confused that you claim there are no superior/inferior species which belies you own asserted intelligence.

11/28/2014 11:28:27 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from kb2222:
You call it "Uninteresting gobbledegook" because you can't refute what it says, i.e. "Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas"

I don't need to refute it. The author(s) offer no evidence that physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how self replicating chemical systems aka life evolved from organic molecules in seas ~ if indeed this hypothesis is the correct one. The UB makes many assertions without backing them with evidence, including the claim that the universe is teeming with intelligent life that resembles life on Earth.

11/28/2014 11:38:38 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
I don't need to refute it. The author(s) offer no evidence that physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how self replicating chemical systems aka life evolved from organic molecules in seas ~ if indeed this hypothesis is the correct one. The UB makes many assertions without backing them with evidence, including the claim that the universe is teeming with intelligent life that resembles life on Earth.

The authors make a statement..."The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable. Aside from the presence of the Unqualified Absolute, electrical and chemical reactions are predictable. But mind can profit from experience, can learn from reactive habits of behavior in response to repetition of stimuli."...

Your call for evidence is a cop out. If you disagree with the statement say why?

Again, I have said before, clarencec, you are a egotistical smart a** that thinks you are so smart that you have convinced yourself that you know God doesn't exist yet you are so irrational and confused that you claim there are no superior/inferior species which belies you own asserted intelligence.

Are you blind and can't see this contradiction, clarencec?



[Edited 11/28/2014 11:40:50 AM ]

11/28/2014 11:54:08 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from kb2222:
The authors make a statement...

Statements of the obvious that add nothing in support of the claim being made that physics and chemistry cannot explain abiogenesis. Yes, the laws of physics and chemistry are (probably) immutable and the human mind is capable of learning new information, but so what?

Again, I have said before, clarencec, you are a egotistical smart a** that thinks you are so smart that you have convinced yourself that you know God doesn't exist yet you are so irrational and confused that you claim there are no superior/inferior species which belies you own asserted intelligence.

If you post any more of the "you are this, you are that" comments you will be blocked. Either make substantive points or don't post at all.



[Edited 11/28/2014 11:56:45 AM ]

11/28/2014 12:03:46 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from clarencec:
If you post any more of the "you are this, you are that" comments you will be blocked. Either make substantive points or don't post at all.

You are a ATHEIST nutcase. I made a substantive point when I said..."you are a egotistical smart a** that thinks you are so smart that you have convinced yourself that you know God doesn't exist yet you are so irrational and confused that you claim there are no superior/inferior species which belies you own asserted intelligence" and asked..."Are you blind and can't see this contradiction, clarencec?"?

If you can't stand being exposed as a CONFUSED AND IRRATIONAL ATHEIST NUTCASE then go ahead and block me.

11/28/2014 12:05:57 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


KB has just turned invisible at the click of a mouse. Ah, that's better.

11/28/2014 10:37:28 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from clarencec:
It categorically denounces groups of people such as the African bushmen as inferior to other groups based on their colour....


No, it doesn't denounce the pygmies because of their color, Clarence. It denounces them, if it denounces them at all, because they are inferior. Try to grasp that. You added the color part yourself, that it denounces them because of their color. YOU added that because it suits your own ideas and your political correctness.

11/28/2014 10:42:49 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
maerkk
Over 2,000 Posts (3,123)
Montreal, QC
76, joined May. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
I made a substantive point when I said..."you are a egotistical smart a** that thinks you are so smart that you have convinced yourself that you know God doesn't exist yet you are so irrational and confused that you claim there are no superior/inferior species which belies you own asserted intelligence"

Of course, this is the problem with you in a nutshell- you're unable to discern a substantive point from vacuous name-calling and chest-thumping. Thus, your posts.

11/29/2014 7:40:58 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


.
Quote from furchizedek:
No, it doesn't denounce the pygmies because of their color, Clarence. It denounces them, if it denounces them at all, because they are inferior. Try to grasp that. You added the color part yourself, that it denounces them because of their color. YOU added that because it suits your own ideas and your political correctness.

Pygmies aren't the only human group disparaged in the UB by usage of the term inferior, so why pick on their example to justify the book's pompous and ignorant pronouncements? Did you enjoy picking on guys smaller than yourself at school or something? What known law of nature designates that humans must be a certain size? What about those Hobbit people, Homo floresiensis, who once inhabitated the Indonesian island of Flores and are thought to represent a sub-species of Homo erectus that attained their diminutive stature through Island Dwarfism, a process whereby species isolated on an island grow smaller in response to reduced food availabilty and lack of predators. The little people of Flores hunted dwarf elephants. Were those animals inferior too? Are ponies inferior to racehorses? The smallest species of bat is the size of a bumblebee and weighs half an ounce, while the largest are the fruit bats that can weigh as much as 3.5 pounds and have a wingspan of 4ft 11ins. Is the smallest species inferior to the largest of the 1200 (ish) bat species, and if so, tell us why. What criteria is being used?

From an evolutionary standpoint, every species and variety (race) that exists is a success story. In fact every individual living organism is the successful result of an unbroken line of descent from an original common ancestor that lived 3.8 billion years ago. If you wish to baldly state that one variant of a species is inferior to other variants, you need to provide a reason. Is it that the pygmies are an ethnic minority who could easily be driven to extinction by competition or warfare with other groups?

An estimated 99.9% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. Were all of those species inferior in your view? I tend to think not - even for those species that became evolutionary dead ends and left no living descendants. I find it impossible to think of species currently threatened with extinction as inferior. Tigers for instance are under serious threat from habitat destruction by humans, yet tigers are an apex predator of incredible power, beauty and perceived value. The other non-human Great Apes are threatened too and come under the same value designation. Are those species all inferior because they're soon likely to be wiped out by humans? If one third of the Earth's fauna is driven to extinction by humans as some experts predict may happen in what has been dubbed the Anthropocene mass extinction, will this mean those species are inferior to us?



[Edited 11/29/2014 7:42:35 AM ]

11/29/2014 11:18:42 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Clarencec, the "somewhat" inferior/superior determination applies not to color, race, size, species or extinction but rather to spiritual receptivity and thus to moral and social conduct and your assertion that humans are no more superior or important than the "survival strategies of the tapeworm" is utter nonsense.

11/29/2014 11:29:05 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

nonstandard
Over 2,000 Posts (3,991)
York, PA
55, joined Jun. 2009


The "physical environment" put us on the map of existance . It has given us a body , a brain , and all of the accessories that goes with them . Its the sole provider of every nuance of data the mind uses to process everything it has ever processed . It provides us with an uderstanding of physics , and the mysterious invisable forces that effect every single particle in the universe . It has shown us every discovery ever made , and yet , we will believe that the intelligence we use to understand everything can "somehow be" greater than the source that has provided everything .

We use intelligence to understand everything , but its the physical data that makes everything work . We have become quite adept at using knowledge to manipulate everything in our environment to cater to our every whim , but when the same knowledge is applied to us , we vehemetly deny everything we have learned . It has taught us that nothing can be greater than the sum of its parts , and yet we will believe that we're the exception , that everything we know about everything else , does'nt apply to us .

Intelligence does'nt come from humans , it comes from our environment . Nothing could survive without it . Everything begins to learn as soon as it developes a brain .

11/29/2014 12:02:07 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


738.1) 65:6.8 Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas. The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable. Aside from the presence of the Unqualified Absolute, electrical and chemical reactions are predictable. But mind can profit from experience, can learn from reactive habits of behavior in response to repetition of stimuli.

(738.2) 65:6.9 Preintelligent organisms react to environmental stimuli, but those organisms which are reactive to mind ministry can adjust and manipulate the environment itself.

(738.3) 65:6.10 The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment. Intellectual, social, moral, and spiritual evolution are dependent on the mind ministry of the seven adjutant spirits and their superphysical associates.

Please give your thoughts on the above, nonstandard.

11/29/2014 12:14:51 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
Clarencec, the "somewhat" inferior/superior determination applies not to color, race, size, species or extinction but rather to spiritual receptivity and thus to moral and social conduct and your assertion that humans are no more superior or important than the "survival strategies of the tapeworm" is utter nonsense.


As long as love is God and faith his angel all are equally purposeful. I don't believe one angle can be superior to the next but there is order in the name of honor and functionality. But we don't use the word superior. We say best, but it only refers to all.

11/29/2014 12:19:20 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

maxwalbridge
Over 1,000 Posts (1,360)
Redwood City, CA
26, joined Nov. 2013


Quote from nonstandard:
The "physical environment" put us on the map of existance . It has given us a body , a brain , and all of the accessories that goes with them . Its the sole provider of every nuance of data the mind uses to process everything it has ever processed . It provides us with an uderstanding of physics , and the mysterious invisable forces that effect every single particle in the universe . It has shown us every discovery ever made , and yet , we will believe that the intelligence we use to understand everything can "somehow be" greater than the source that has provided everything .

We use intelligence to understand everything , but its the physical data that makes everything work . We have become quite adept at using knowledge to manipulate everything in our environment to cater to our every whim , but when the same knowledge is applied to us , we vehemetly deny everything we have learned . It has taught us that nothing can be greater than the sum of its parts , and yet we will believe that we're the exception , that everything we know about everything else , does'nt apply to us .

Intelligence does'nt come from humans , it comes from our environment . Nothing could survive without it . Everything begins to learn as soon as it developes a brain .


The transcendental world is invisible yet observable. It's physical, but not flesh.

11/29/2014 2:11:39 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
maerkk
Over 2,000 Posts (3,123)
Montreal, QC
76, joined May. 2013


Quote from kb2222:
738.1) 65:6.8 Physics and chemistry alone cannot explain how a human being evolved out of the primeval protoplasm of the early seas.

Good thing nobody thinks that. (Biological) evolution cannot be explained by physics and chemistry alone, but needs biological principles (surprise, surprise, eh? a biological theory needs biological principles) such as the mechanisms that drive variation, as well as an understanding of how environmental conditions drive natural selection.

The ability to learn, memory and differential response to environment, is the endowment of mind. The laws of physics are not responsive to training; they are immutable and unchanging. The reactions of chemistry are not modified by education; they are uniform and dependable.

Clearly someone needs to read up on emergent phenomenon. Oh wait, this is kb2222 we're taking about- of course he's not going to read anything educational.


(738.2) 65:6.9 Preintelligent organisms react to environmental stimuli, but those organisms which are reactive to mind ministry can adjust and manipulate the environment itself.

Responding to stimuli is "adjusting and manipulating the environment". Oops. False dichotomy.

The physical brain with its associated nervous system possesses innate capacity for response to mind ministry just as the developing mind of a personality possesses a certain innate capacity for spirit receptivity and therefore contains the potentials of spiritual progress and attainment.

Evidence? Oh wait, I forgot who I'm talking to once again.



11/29/2014 10:54:18 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Average IQ of Countries (http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm)

The average IQ in the United States is usually set at 100. Groups within the US score different average IQ's, such as 115 for college grads or 85 for African-Americans. Similarly, average IQ varies from country to country, shown in the 2002 book IQ and the Wealth of Nations (sets Britain at 100):

From Intelligence and the Wealth and Poverty of Nations by Richard Lynn

Rank Country IQ estimate

1 Hong Kong 107
2 South Korea 106
3 ^ Japan 105
4 Taiwan 104
5 Singapore 103
6 * Austria 102
6 ^ Germany 102
6 ** Italy 102
6 * Netherlands 102
10 Sweden 101
10 Switzerland 101
12 Belgium 100
12 ** China 100
12 New Zealand 100
12 ** United Kingdom 100
16 Hungary 99
16 Poland 99
16 ** Spain 99
19 Australia 98
19 Denmark 98
19 * France 98
19 Mongolia 98
19 Norway 98
19 * United States 98
25 Canada 97
25 Czech Republic 97
25 Finland 97
28 Argentina 96
28 ^ Russia 96
28 Slovakia 96
28 Uruguay 96
32 ^ Portugal 95
32 Slovenia 95
34 Israel 94
34 Romania 94
36 Bulgaria 93
36 Ireland 93
36 * Greece 93
39 Malaysia 92
40 Thailand 91
41 Croatia 90
41 ^ Peru 90
41 * * Turkey 90
44 Colombia 89
44 Indonesia 89
44 Suriname 89
47 Brazil 87
47 * * Iraq 87
47 ^ Mexico 87
47 Samoa 87
47 Tonga 87
52 * Lebanon 86
52 Philippines 86
54 Cuba 85
54 Morocco 85
56 Fiji 84
56 * Iran 84
56 Marshall Islands 84
56 Puerto Rico 84
60 ** Egypt 83
60 Saudi Arabia 83
60 United Arab Emirates 83
61 * India 81
62 Ecuador 80
63 Guatemala 79
64 Barbados 78
64 Nepal 78
64 Qatar 78
67 Zambia 77
68 Congo 73
68 Uganda 73
70 Jamaica 72
70 Kenya 72
70 South Africa 72
70 Sudan 72
70 Tanzania 72
75 Ghana 71
76 Nigeria 67
77 Guinea 66
77 ^ Zimbabwe 66
79 Democratic Republic of the Congo 65
80 Sierra Leone 64
81 Ethiopia 63
82 Equatorial Guinea 59

Quote from clarencec:
.
Quote from furchizedek:
No, it doesn't denounce the pygmies because of their color, Clarence. It denounces them, if it denounces them at all, because they are inferior. Try to grasp that. You added the color part yourself, that it denounces them because of their color. YOU added that because it suits your own ideas and your political correctness.

Pygmies aren't the only human group disparaged in the UB by usage of the term inferior, so why pick on their example to justify the book's pompous and ignorant pronouncements? Did you enjoy picking on guys smaller than yourself at school or something? What known law of nature designates that humans must be a certain size? What about those Hobbit people, Homo floresiensis, who once inhabitated the Indonesian island of Flores and are thought to represent a sub-species of Homo erectus that attained their diminutive stature through Island Dwarfism, a process whereby species isolated on an island grow smaller in response to reduced food availabilty and lack of predators. The little people of Flores hunted dwarf elephants. Were those animals inferior too? Are ponies inferior to racehorses? The smallest species of bat is the size of a bumblebee and weighs half an ounce, while the largest are the fruit bats that can weigh as much as 3.5 pounds and have a wingspan of 4ft 11ins. Is the smallest species inferior to the largest of the 1200 (ish) bat species, and if so, tell us why. What criteria is being used?

From an evolutionary standpoint, every species and variety (race) that exists is a success story. In fact every individual living organism is the successful result of an unbroken line of descent from an original common ancestor that lived 3.8 billion years ago. If you wish to baldly state that one variant of a species is inferior to other variants, you need to provide a reason. Is it that the pygmies are an ethnic minority who could easily be driven to extinction by competition or warfare with other groups?

An estimated 99.9% of all species that ever existed are now extinct. Were all of those species inferior in your view? I tend to think not - even for those species that became evolutionary dead ends and left no living descendants. I find it impossible to think of species currently threatened with extinction as inferior. Tigers for instance are under serious threat from habitat destruction by humans, yet tigers are an apex predator of incredible power, beauty and perceived value. The other non-human Great Apes are threatened too and come under the same value designation. Are those species all inferior because they're soon likely to be wiped out by humans? If one third of the Earth's fauna is driven to extinction by humans as some experts predict may happen in what has been dubbed the Anthropocene mass extinction, will this mean those species are inferior to us?


11/29/2014 11:55:12 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
maerkk
Over 2,000 Posts (3,123)
Montreal, QC
76, joined May. 2013


Point being? Anything? No? Surprise, surprise.

11/30/2014 3:35:32 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from maerkk:
Point being? Anything? No? Surprise, surprise.


Clarence says that everyone is equal and that none are inferior or superior.

11/30/2014 7:09:36 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


IQ tests are a good way of measuring how good people are at performing IQ tests, which are designed to measure areas of mental performance that the educational systems of Western countries value highly. If the whole planet had Western style educational systems and a work ethic to match that of people living in Hong Kong, presumably the average performance in IQ tests when compared globally would be higher and show less variation.

Even if IQ tests did show an average variation in intelligence levels between the populations of different countries that were genetically determined and incapable of improvement (which is unlikely), this wouldn't have any bearing on the rights of those people with lower performance to live in peace and security, raise families and pass on their genes. There's no law of nature saying that intelligence is a desirable attribute in humans that must be maximized globally by a programme of selective breeding. Intelligence is merely a suite of traits that exist together with others, such as height, the lack of which you (wrongly) argued in an earlier post is an absolute mark of inferiority in pygmies.

Lastly, arguing that intelligence is a prized attribute that should be maximized globally by selective breeding would almost certainly be bad for the UB, which to increase in popularity is reliant on the availability of people who are happy to believe that science mistakes of the past represent infallible truth handed down from on high - including a 19th century understanding of evolution as a pitiless "survival of the fittest" struggle between inferior and superior races, and an accompanying 19th century Social Darwinist dream to adjust social policy and misapply this outdated and defunct concept to human races.

If more people are going to be converted to believe in the fake cosmology, pseudo-life of Jesus, pseudo-philosophy, bad science and questionable "spiritual" fare on offer in the UB, and in thwe unlikely event that the inclination to accept these things as true can be increased among a given population by manipulation of hereditary characters as claimed happens on advanced worlds, then doesn't this logically mean they would really be selecting people for stupidity?

The continued improvement of such a magnificent race throughout the era of light and life is largely a matter of the selective reproduction of those racial strains which exhibit superior qualities of a social, philosophic, cosmic, and spiritual nature.(630.6) 55:6.3



[Edited 11/30/2014 7:12:38 AM ]

11/30/2014 10:11:07 AMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

kb2222
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,625)
Jacksonville, FL
77, joined Apr. 2011


Quote from kb2222:
Clarencec, the "somewhat" inferior/superior determination applies not to color, race, size, species or extinction but rather to spiritual receptivity and thus to moral and social conduct and your assertion that humans are no more superior or important than the "survival strategies of the tapeworm" is utter nonsense.


11/30/2014 12:01:12 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
maerkk
Over 2,000 Posts (3,123)
Montreal, QC
76, joined May. 2013


Quote from furchizedek:
Clarence says that everyone is equal and that none are inferior or superior.

And you think you've disproved that? Oh dear...

11/30/2014 12:05:06 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
maerkk
Over 2,000 Posts (3,123)
Montreal, QC
76, joined May. 2013


Quote from clarencec:
IQ tests are a good way of measuring how good people are at performing IQ tests, which are designed to measure areas of mental performance that the educational systems of Western countries value highly. If the whole planet had Western style educational systems and a work ethic to match that of people living in Hong Kong, presumably the average performance in IQ tests when compared globally would be higher and show less variation.

Yep, exactly.


Lastly, arguing that intelligence is a prized attribute that should be maximized globally by selective breeding would almost certainly be bad for the UB, which to increase in popularity is reliant on the availability of people who are happy to believe that science mistakes of the past represent infallible truth handed down from on high - including a 19th century understanding of evolution as a pitiless "survival of the fittest" struggle between inferior and superior races, and an accompanying 19th century Social Darwinist dream to adjust social policy and misapply this outdated and defunct concept to human races.



If more people are going to be converted to believe in the fake cosmology, pseudo-life of Jesus, pseudo-philosophy, bad science and questionable "spiritual" fare on offer in the UB, and in thwe unlikely event that the inclination to accept these things as true can be increased among a given population by manipulation of hereditary characters as claimed happens on advanced worlds, then doesn't this logically mean they would really be selecting people for stupidity?

For a certainty.

The continued improvement of such a magnificent race throughout the era of light and life is largely a matter of the selective reproduction of those racial strains which exhibit superior qualities of a social, philosophic, cosmic, and spiritual nature.(630.6) 55:6.3

DH really needs a barfy-face emoticon. Bunk science, poorly written, and racist as well? Wow, I can't imagine why UB is a fringe group comprised of crackpots and intellectual hunchbacks... Oh wait.



[Edited 11/30/2014 12:05:50 PM ]

11/30/2014 12:09:15 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from clarencec:
IQ tests are a good way of measuring how good people are at performing IQ tests, which are designed to measure areas of mental performance that the educational systems of Western countries value highly. If the whole planet had Western style educational systems and a work ethic to match that of people living in Hong Kong, presumably the average performance in IQ tests when compared globally would be higher and show less variation.


Hard to say. Sentences that begin with "If" are often hard to say.

Even if IQ tests did show an average variation in intelligence levels between the populations of different countries that were genetically determined and incapable of improvement (which is unlikely), this wouldn't have any bearing on the rights of those people with lower performance to live in peace and security, raise families and pass on their genes.


I never said it would. On the other hand, it would have a bearing if the societies that any group of people were in had laws pertaining to the subjects at hand. China has done it with their one child per family law. Western nations do it with their laws against incest. So actually, if societies deemed it, then the laws of societies would have a bearing, except in fantasyland. Societies decide what has a bearing on what.

There's no law of nature saying that intelligence is a desirable attribute in humans that must be maximized globally by a programme of selective breeding.


Actually, there are no laws of nature at all. If you were religious you would be using the term, your "God-given rights." But instead you are trying to float the "laws of nature." All rights come from society, not from nature or from God.

Intelligence is merely a suite of traits that exist together with others, such as height, the lack of which you (wrongly) argued in an earlier post is an absolute mark of inferiority in pygmies.


I don't think I ever said that lack of height was a mark of inferiority. I think you are weirdly mistaken. Perhaps you misunderstood something. Sometimes people deliberately misunderstand it they have a mind to do so.

Lastly, arguing that intelligence is a prized attribute that should be maximized globally by selective breeding would almost certainly be bad for the UB, which to increase in popularity is reliant on the availability of people who are happy to believe that science mistakes of the past represent infallible truth handed down from on high - including a 19th century understanding of evolution as a pitiless "survival of the fittest" struggle between inferior and superior races, and an accompanying 19th century Social Darwinist dream to adjust social policy and misapply this outdated and defunct concept to human races.

If more people are going to be converted to believe in the fake cosmology, pseudo-life of Jesus, pseudo-philosophy, bad science and questionable "spiritual" fare on offer in the UB, and in thwe unlikely event that the inclination to accept these things as true can be increased among a given population by manipulation of hereditary characters as claimed happens on advanced worlds, then doesn't this logically mean they would really be selecting people for stupidity?


Very funny.

The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely proportional to the truth contained. -The Urantia Book


11/30/2014 12:12:18 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from maerkk:
And you think you've disproved that? Oh dear...


I didn't say I thought I disproved it. What's up with you and that crap? You're not an honest debater.

11/30/2014 12:26:04 PMLove vs Hate in the bible | Page 3 
maerkk
Over 2,000 Posts (3,123)
Montreal, QC
76, joined May. 2013


Quote from furchizedek:
I didn't say I thought I disproved it.

No, you implied it.

What's up with you and that crap? You're not an honest debater.

Lol, I'm the dishonest one?




And so you're saying that you didn't post a list of average IQ's as evidence that races are not equal and that some are superior/inferior (as you obviously imply above)? If that wasn't the point, then what was it?