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11/29/2014 2:31:01 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Organized religions have accomplished much good in this world, history proves it. History and the experiences of many also point to corruption in these organizations, damning doctrines.

Being a Christian has it dangers. Many are easily persuaded by those who have authority in churches. Accepting what is said from a pulpit as ultimate truth without studying scripture can lead to confusion and harm. Study to show yourself approved…rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

“You’re going to Hell if you remarry” mentality. Once I met a man who was a State Overseer in a certain church denomination. Though he was very knowledgeable about the word of God, the doctrine that supposedly would damn him had a stronghold in his mind. Of course they cast him out of church, and office. He told me he knew he was damned because his first marriage had ended, he had married again and wasn’t about to leave his second wife. He was convinced of his own damnation because of teachings he was taught and believed. The problem with such doctrines is when a person believes an error as truth, there will be no change in their lives. Sin will multiply in a person’s life when they believe there is no grace available for them. I know another man who believes there is no hope for the same reason. His own family has turned against him, most of them believe he will be damned because of a twisted doctrine. It’s okay if you have slept with a 100 people, just don’t get a divorce. You can be a rapist, child molester or murderer, and receive more acceptance and grace in most churches than someone who has remarried.

“Everyone/thing has a demon,” mentality. My argument is with those who claim to have the power of God and don’t use it. Doesn’t it say, “What is bound in Heaven can be bound on earth”? Scripture states, “The fervent, effectual prayers of a righteous man avails much.” Let’s say there is a righteous man or woman; and someone believed to be demonized is standing before them. Will the power of faith within them set the person free of the demon? Probably not, it’s easier to speak evil, let them go to hell, that’s easier than operating in faith isn’t it? It would be reasonable to conclude bitterness has lowered that Christian’s ability to be gracious and operate in faith. Faith operates by love doesn’t it? No love, no faith. Take Joyce Myers for example. She stated her biological father had sex with her around 200 hundred times. Did she gain a devil through sexual encounters with him? Most Pentecostal Christians would say yes. Was she delivered of this demon? If so, I have never heard her state when that deliverance took place. I’m not bashing Joyce, she has proven we can overcome a tormented past and give hope to others that have suffered the same. It is rare that a well-known minister will admit to having a devil’s influence operating in them.

I knew a woman who loved a man. It ended up that she was tagged as having a demon. They (the religious) made no attempt to deliver her of this assumed demonic presence. It would have been better for him had she been a prostitute, at least it would be easier to say a prostitute was demonic than someone being possessed by love, . Did these religious people care? Of course not, they were too busy proving they were holy and performing power plays. She was insignificant, no threat at all. It was the laughter and jesting of his peers that prompted his ill actions and words. I wonder, would it have been different had she shared his same status? But then, we have seen men of faith fall for prostitutes, greed for money, power and other things. Undoubtedly power can and does corrupt.

“Legalism” mentality. I believe in God and His goodness, grace. There are standards to live by, but everyone and everything is not demonic, neither will legalism save a soul. It is a ploy to promote fear, to keep people in check, submissive in the church. Real faith is liberating. They say, “Get it right or get out.“ Tell me, what Christian do you know who continuously walks in perfect love? I know not one, I do know some who come close though. Scripture states in the last days many shall fall away from the faith because of offenses. Have you ever attended church and felt worse when you left? Being beaten with a sermon of thou shalt not’s? What about liberating people? Most churches I’ve attended consider all rock music evil, that’s a lie. Love songs are not evil. Read “Song of Solomon” if you need proof. Movie theaters are considered evil. Dancing is evil. Wearing jewelry, women wearing slacks, short hair on women and long hair on men, wearing cosmetics, is considered evil by some churches. Once while standing in a jewelry section, I overheard two women a few feet away. One lady was considering buying a pair of earrings. The other lady said, “If God wanted me to have earrings I would have been born with them.” What kind of mentality is that? We were not born wearing clothes, nor did we come into the world holding soap or deodorant, but (hopefully) we all have and use these things.

Christ said, “Love one another.” Where does scripture prove that sin, including remarriage cannot be forgiven? How does heaping on the additional burdens of legalism free or save us? Where does scripture state that we all have demons and need to be delivered? Christ said love would be the trademark of Christians, and power was given to them in the name of Jesus. Where is the love and power?

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11/30/2014 1:05:39 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


It sounds as if you've had some experience with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Don't they call some of their people "Overseers"? That's like something out of a weird Sci-Fi film. By the way, there is another religion-like forum/group here on DH. It's called the Christian Group. It's here: http://www.datehookup.com/Forum-5081.htm

Quote from triannalee:
Organized religions have accomplished much good in this world, history proves it. History and the experiences of many also point to corruption in these organizations, damning doctrines.

Being a Christian has it dangers. Many are easily persuaded by those who have authority in churches. Accepting what is said from a pulpit as ultimate truth without studying scripture can lead to confusion and harm. Study to show yourself approved…rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

“You’re going to Hell if you remarry” mentality. Once I met a man who was a State Overseer in a certain church denomination. Though he was very knowledgeable about the word of God, the doctrine that supposedly would damn him had a stronghold in his mind. Of course they cast him out of church, and office. He told me he knew he was damned because his first marriage had ended, he had married again and wasn’t about to leave his second wife. He was convinced of his own damnation because of teachings he was taught and believed. The problem with such doctrines is when a person believes an error as truth, there will be no change in their lives. Sin will multiply in a person’s life when they believe there is no grace available for them. I know another man who believes there is no hope for the same reason. His own family has turned against him, most of them believe he will be damned because of a twisted doctrine. It’s okay if you have slept with a 100 people, just don’t get a divorce. You can be a rapist, child molester or murderer, and receive more acceptance and grace in most churches than someone who has remarried.

“Everyone/thing has a demon,” mentality. My argument is with those who claim to have the power of God and don’t use it. Doesn’t it say, “What is bound in Heaven can be bound on earth”? Scripture states, “The fervent, effectual prayers of a righteous man avails much.” Let’s say there is a righteous man or woman; and someone believed to be demonized is standing before them. Will the power of faith within them set the person free of the demon? Probably not, it’s easier to speak evil, let them go to hell, that’s easier than operating in faith isn’t it? It would be reasonable to conclude bitterness has lowered that Christian’s ability to be gracious and operate in faith. Faith operates by love doesn’t it? No love, no faith. Take Joyce Myers for example. She stated her biological father had sex with her around 200 hundred times. Did she gain a devil through sexual encounters with him? Most Pentecostal Christians would say yes. Was she delivered of this demon? If so, I have never heard her state when that deliverance took place. I’m not bashing Joyce, she has proven we can overcome a tormented past and give hope to others that have suffered the same. It is rare that a well-known minister will admit to having a devil’s influence operating in them.

I knew a woman who loved a man. It ended up that she was tagged as having a demon. They (the religious) made no attempt to deliver her of this assumed demonic presence. It would have been better for him had she been a prostitute, at least it would be easier to say a prostitute was demonic than someone being possessed by love, . Did these religious people care? Of course not, they were too busy proving they were holy and performing power plays. She was insignificant, no threat at all. It was the laughter and jesting of his peers that prompted his ill actions and words. I wonder, would it have been different had she shared his same status? But then, we have seen men of faith fall for prostitutes, greed for money, power and other things. Undoubtedly power can and does corrupt.

“Legalism” mentality. I believe in God and His goodness, grace. There are standards to live by, but everyone and everything is not demonic, neither will legalism save a soul. It is a ploy to promote fear, to keep people in check, submissive in the church. Real faith is liberating. They say, “Get it right or get out.“ Tell me, what Christian do you know who continuously walks in perfect love? I know not one, I do know some who come close though. Scripture states in the last days many shall fall away from the faith because of offenses. Have you ever attended church and felt worse when you left? Being beaten with a sermon of thou shalt not’s? What about liberating people? Most churches I’ve attended consider all rock music evil, that’s a lie. Love songs are not evil. Read “Song of Solomon” if you need proof. Movie theaters are considered evil. Dancing is evil. Wearing jewelry, women wearing slacks, short hair on women and long hair on men, wearing cosmetics, is considered evil by some churches. Once while standing in a jewelry section, I overheard two women a few feet away. One lady was considering buying a pair of earrings. The other lady said, “If God wanted me to have earrings I would have been born with them.” What kind of mentality is that? We were not born wearing clothes, nor did we come into the world holding soap or deodorant, but (hopefully) we all have and use these things.

Christ said, “Love one another.” Where does scripture prove that sin, including remarriage cannot be forgiven? How does heaping on the additional burdens of legalism free or save us? Where does scripture state that we all have demons and need to be delivered? Christ said love would be the trademark of Christians, and power was given to them in the name of Jesus. Where is the love and power?


11/30/2014 3:18:17 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from furchizedek:
It sounds as if you've had some experience with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Don't they call some of their people "Overseers"? That's like something out of a weird Sci-Fi film. By the way, there is another religion-like forum/group here on DH. It's called the Christian Group. It's here: http://www.datehookup.com/Forum-5081.htm

Actually it was mostly Pentecostal churches. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

12/1/2014 2:17:33 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
eader]Quote from furchizedek:
It sounds as if you've had some experience with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Don't they call some of their people "Overseers"? That's like something out of a weird Sci-Fi film. By the way, there is another religion-like forum/group here on DH. It's called the Christian Group. It's here: http://www.datehookup.com/Forum-5081.htm

Actually it was mostly Pentecostal churches. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.


Have you ever read The Urantia Book? The last 700 pages are the true life and teachings of Jesus from the Universe Records that God's angels keep of God's doings on earth. This is the one to get, and holler if you have any questions about it.

                                    

12/1/2014 11:17:36 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from furchizedek:
Have you ever read The Urantia Book? The last 700 pages are the true life and teachings of Jesus from the Universe Records that God's angels keep of God's doings on earth. This is the one to get, and holler if you have any questions about it.

I've never heard of this book. When I have time I'll look it up on the internet. Really busy at work and have an overload of things to do at home..plus several books I'm already reading currently. Thanks again.

12/6/2014 11:15:48 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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Isn't the Urantia Book a racist book?

12/6/2014 11:57:01 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

rufftreasure
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Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


No more than the bible

12/6/2014 12:38:52 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
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Where is there even the slightest endorsement of racism in the Bible? On the contrary, the Bible calls us to love all.

"In Christ there is no Greek or Jew." --St. Paul

"Go to all the world and preach the good news." --Jesus

"He who says he loves God and hates his neighbor is a liar." --St. John

All three above quotes are from the Bible.

12/6/2014 1:50:38 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

wayn49
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,021)
Birmingham, AL
56, joined Feb. 2011


i do not know what to say to the one who made this topic but that for the most part christianity is not what it should be and we should love one another regardless

12/6/2014 1:59:17 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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Wayn, do you know of any Bible verses the support racism? I sure don't.

12/6/2014 2:16:56 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
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Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Isn't the Urantia Book a racist book?


Um, no, it's not. But you'd know that if you read it, or at least you'd know something. Too busy to read it? Too afraid to read it? Reading isn't your thing? Well then, all you can do it seems is to parrot the views of an atheist named Clarence. The pharisees did the same sort of smear job against Jesus that you're doing against The Urantia Book, ignorantly attacking it. They said, "He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?" (John 10:20) That's what you're doing now. You are truly a modern day pharisee, believing he already knows it all and rejecting new truth out-of-hand just like they did.

12/6/2014 2:35:40 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
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Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Where is there even the slightest endorsement of racism in the Bible? On the contrary, the Bible calls us to love all.

"In Christ there is no Greek or Jew." --St. Paul

"Go to all the world and preach the good news." --Jesus

"He who says he loves God and hates his neighbor is a liar." --St. John

All three above quotes are from the Bible.


Three quotes, only one from Jesus, the Son of God. "St. Paul" and "St. John" get equal billing as the Son of God in the Catholic church.

"Go to all the world and preach the good news." --Jesus

You don't even know what the good news is. After Jesus died Paul came along with his own version of "the good news." For 2000 years Christians have been preaching the good news according to Paul, instead of the good news that Jesus spoke of in the verse above which Ludlow didn't bother to properly cite.

The real gospel comes from Jesus, not from Paul, as we can tell from these verses:

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)

"And it came to pass... that Jesus went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him..." (Luke 8:1) (Also see Matthew 4:23, Mark 1:14, and Luke 4:43.)

From these verses we can see that the gospel was something that Jesus actually preached and taught during his appearances before large crowds in many cities, and long before his death. Thus, the questions of who, when, and where the gospel comes from are answered. The gospel of the kingdom, the glad tidings, the good news, comes from Jesus, the Son of God. The true gospel does not come from Paul, the apostle that Jesus never heard of.

Jesus, in The Urantia Book says:

“Yes, Simon, all men are the sons of God, and that is the good news you are going to proclaim.”

“The rulers seek to kill me because they resent my teaching about the good news of the kingdom, a gospel that sets men free from the burdensome traditions of a formal religion of ceremonies which these teachers are determined to uphold at any cost."

And the Catholic church today still tries to enslave men in "the burdensome traditions of a formal religion of ceremonies which these teachers are determined to uphold at any cost."

12/6/2014 3:18:17 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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In the Catholic Church John and Paul certainly do not get "equal billing" with Jesus. Jesus is God Incarnate, teaches the Church. John and Paul were just men. I made those three quotes, not to equate Jesus with John and Paul, but to show how very unracist the Bible is. I don't know if you believe in the Bible or not but surely you don't think the Bible is racist, do you?

12/6/2014 3:39:00 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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If the Urantia Book isn't racist, why does it speak of unfit and degenerate strains?

12/6/2014 3:58:31 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
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Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
In the Catholic Church John and Paul certainly do not get "equal billing" with Jesus. Jesus is God Incarnate, teaches the Church. John and Paul were just men. I made those three quotes, not to equate Jesus with John and Paul, but to show how very unracist the Bible is. I don't know if you believe in the Bible or not but surely you don't think the Bible is racist, do you?


To answer your last question first, I never said I thought the bible was racist. Someone else said that. I'd have to study the issue more before I could comment on it. I suppose that to the extent that the Jews believe they are the "chosen people," yes, that could be considered racist.

As regards your statement that "Jesus is God Incarnate," that's exactly what The Urantia Book teaches as well. Did you know that?

Your quote from John does not address racism, it addresses hate. And your quote from Paul is certainly, imo, not even about racism, it's probably more about nationalism.

12/6/2014 4:06:28 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
If the Urantia Book isn't racist, why does it speak of unfit and degenerate strains?


"Strains" is a key word. Strains is not a substitute word for "race." All the races have unfit and degenerate strains within them. The entire human race has degenerate and unfit strains in the gene pool. No, everyone on earth does not have the same musical, athletic, or thinking abilities. Such ideas are childish, politically correct ideas. Nevertheless, all human beings are equal in God's eyes, all are equal in spiritual potential. It's said that Basset Hounds are dumber than Border Collies. Is that dog racism?

Whether or not everyone has equal abilities, if God loves everyone equally then we had probably better do the same.

12/6/2014 5:35:32 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,647)
Saint Petersburg, FL
70, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
In the Catholic Church John and Paul certainly do not get "equal billing" with Jesus. Jesus is God Incarnate, teaches the Church. John and Paul were just men. I made those three quotes, not to equate Jesus with John and Paul, but to show how very unracist the Bible is. I don't know if you believe in the Bible or not but surely you don't think the Bible is racist, do you?


Of course the bible is racist!

In Deuteronomy chapter 7 your God tells the Israelites that there are other "ethnic groups". Does your God instruct them to live in peace and harmony with them, respecting each others’ differences? No! He instructs the Israelites “to smite them ..... utterly destroy them! Your god actually says "thou shalt make no covenant with them nor shew mercy unto them. Neither shalt thou make marriages with them.”

This isn’t the only time the Israelites were instructed by your god to exterminate others ..... your god simply commands the Israelites to exterminate non-Israelites ..... not for any crime ..... but simply because they are a different ethnic group with a different religion. This exceeds even the Ku Klux Klan level of racism.

There are many more passages in the OT that shows how racist your god actually is ..... I suggest that you do some research before you make posts like this.

You will probable say that this racism was all in the past, that Jesus replaced this hate and bigotry with love. However even Jesus looked down on non-Israelites.

The NT gives us this image of Jesus ..... “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying; Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” Matthew 15:22-8

I have seen people in this forum use this same story to claim Jesus was not racist. Apparently the fact Jesus healed the Canaanite was proof of his tolerance. In fact, Jesus initially refused to even speak to the woman simply because she was different. He actually declares that he only cares about Israelis. Jesus then compares her to a dog!

How do you explain all of this disgusting racism coming from Jesus ..... your savior ..... he who you claim to be the son of God? It was only after the Canaanite woman is forced to beg, grovel and compare herself to a dog eating crumbs ..... that Jesus decides to help her.

Mark 7:25-30 tells the same or similar story but the woman is presented as Greek according to him.

If that’s not racist then I don’t know what is.

Peace

12/6/2014 7:27:01 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

rufftreasure
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Fairmont, MN
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Quote from wayn49:
i do not know what to say to the one who made this topic but that for the most part christianity is not what it should be and we should love one another regardless


Yes, and all the brothers and sisters as well.

12/7/2014 2:11:27 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
In the Catholic Church John and Paul certainly do not get "equal billing" with Jesus.


But, isn't Jesus God? The words of Jesus then are God's Word, right? And don't you also call what Paul wrote, "God's Word"? And the same with John? Don't you call John's writing "God's Word"? Do you see how muddy the water gets when terms are misused as the term "God's Word" is? Christians would be better off if they would more clearly designate that "God's Word" is really only those words that are spoken by Jesus, or by God himself such as in Matthew 3:17 and Matthew 17:5. Christians do God a disservice by saying that all the words in the bible are "God's Word" when they are not.

12/7/2014 7:03:41 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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Panama City, FL
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When God commanded the ancient Israelites to smite their enemies the reason was that Israel's enemies worshipped a plethora of gods instead of the One True God. Race had nothing to do with it.

12/7/2014 7:05:03 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
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Furchizedek, would you say that Mexicans are degenerate, or only black people?

12/7/2014 7:53:02 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

sail_dancer
Over 7,500 Posts!! (8,647)
Saint Petersburg, FL
70, joined Apr. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
When God commanded the ancient Israelites to smite their enemies the reason was that Israel's enemies worshipped a plethora of gods instead of the One True God. Race had nothing to do with it.


Very similar to what Stalin commanded the Russians to do to Germany ..... and what Hitler told the Germans to do to Russia. I always considered your god to be a vicious dictator ..... I'm glad that you see him in the same light.

Peace

12/7/2014 8:37:19 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

olderthandirt20
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,840)
Waldron, AR
71, joined Jul. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
When God commanded the ancient Israelites to smite their enemies the reason was that Israel's enemies worshipped a plethora of gods instead of the One True God. Race had nothing to do with it.


So it's okay to kill when god gets pissed even tho god also says thou shall not kill?
That's some kind of mixed message god puts out there.
Sounds like god and hitler and stalin and saddam hussein all had something in common

12/7/2014 9:52:20 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


.
Quote from ludlowlowell:
Isn't the Urantia Book a racist book?

The UB is a Readers Digest style conglomeration of various subject matter that interested its author(s). Besides an invented cosmology and pseudo-life of Jesus, this includes now discarded theories of eugenics and scientific racism that were prevalent in the intellectual climate of the early 20th century. These theories figure very prominently in the UB, to the extent that the author(s) rewrite the Adam & Eve creation myth as a story about the "racial improvement" of humans by the infusion of superior hereditary characters gained via interbreeding human stock with the offspring of a male & female couple of 8 feet tall aliens from another world. The breeding programme goes wrong when Eve acquiesces to an urge to perform the horizontal foxtrot with a male who isn't Adam. A distraught Adam does likewise when he hears about it, whereupon the pair are adjudged by Starfleet Command to have violated the Prime Directive and incurred a status of default on the goals of their mission, which is consequently called off before completion. We're later told that the dark races retreated to Africa after having largely missed out on an infusion of the super-duper Adamic blood, which mostly benefitted the white races.

There are other passages where the author clearly shows a White Supremacist bias, so I'd say yes, the UB is a racist tome, and in view of how the Fall of Man, which looms large in Christian theology, has been reimagined as a failed interplanetary racial improvement project, the 1930;s style racial and eugenics content is not a trivial aspect of the book as has often been claimed on forum, but is central to the whole thing.

An essay worth reading here:

http://www.nthposition.com/bibleofeugenics.php

12/7/2014 11:58:24 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
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Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
When God commanded the ancient Israelites to smite their enemies the reason was that Israel's enemies worshipped a plethora of gods instead of the One True God. Race had nothing to do with it.


God never commanded anyone to smite their enemies, Ludlow. You don't really follow God. You don't know God.

This is what God says about such things:

Mat 5:44 ...I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

12/7/2014 11:59:00 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Furchizedek, would you say that Mexicans are degenerate, or only black people?


No, I would not say that.

12/7/2014 12:18:12 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

turkalurk82
Over 1,000 Posts (1,071)
Godfrey, IL
35, joined Sep. 2014


Quote from ludlowlowell:
When God commanded the ancient Israelites to smite their enemies the reason was that Israel's enemies worshipped a plethora of gods instead of the One True God. Race had nothing to do with it.
this is true, he even expects you to stone your brother if he speaks of worshiping other gods, or your drunkard son if he continually disobeys you. So, he hates everyone who doesn't believe in his divine love. He just holds the jews in high esteem for their willingness to do his dirty work all those years ago.



[Edited 12/7/2014 12:19:46 PM ]

12/7/2014 12:26:59 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
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Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from turkalurk82:
this is true, he even expects you to stone your brother if he speaks of worshiping other gods, or your drunkard son if he continually disobeys you. So, he hates everyone who doesn't believe in his divine love. He just holds the jews in high esteem for their willingness to do his dirty work all those years ago.




12/7/2014 12:42:40 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


You're not doing Ludlow any favors, Clarence. Not to mention you're wasting your time trying to enlighten him. He is profoundly ignorant. Did you see what he wrote just today on another thread concerning the other sheep "folds" that Jesus spoke of in the NT? Here it is:

From Ludlow: "The "other sheep" Jesus refers to are the people who truly love God but who do not belong to the Catholic Church, Jesus'Mystical Body. Those people can be saved if they are ignorant of the Catholic faith through no fault of their own. Notice the next thing Jesus says is that He would like to gather all these peoppe togeeher so that there may be one fold (the Catholic Church) and one shepherd (Jesus)."


In Ludlow's mind, the universe revolves around the Catholic church and the Pope and Mary and so. If you really want to help him, get to the heart of the problem, don't be wasting your time trashing The Urantia Book. He has far more severe issues than that. And the only reason he's even asking these "racist" questions is because he's retaliating for being asked why he doesn't do as Jesus says to do (which question Jesus himself asks, but which Ludlow tries to rebut by attacking the current asker instead of attacking Jesus, and employing sophistries about one calling one's dad, dad, AND which situation you also, playing as "Devil's Advocate" give him cover for, again not doing him any favors) and he's playing off of your racial comments about the book because he doesn't know any better himself. Rather than load him up with your convenient opinions on the subject, you should direct him to read the book for himself and not comment on his confusion until he does. And why he would take on any advice from an atheist is beyond me, but it must be the case of "any port in a storm."

Quote from clarencec:
.
Quote from ludlowlowell:
Isn't the Urantia Book a racist book?

The UB is a Readers Digest style conglomeration of various subject matter that interested its author(s). Besides an invented cosmology and pseudo-life of Jesus, this includes now discarded theories of eugenics and scientific racism that were prevalent in the intellectual climate of the early 20th century. These theories figure very prominently in the UB, to the extent that the author(s) rewrite the Adam & Eve creation myth as a story about the "racial improvement" of humans by the infusion of superior hereditary characters gained via interbreeding human stock with the offspring of a male & female couple of 8 feet tall aliens from another world. The breeding programme goes wrong when Eve acquiesces to an urge to perform the horizontal foxtrot with a male who isn't Adam. A distraught Adam does likewise when he hears about it, whereupon the pair are adjudged by Starfleet Command to have violated the Prime Directive and incurred a status of default on the goals of their mission, which is consequently called off before completion. We're later told that the dark races retreated to Africa after having largely missed out on an infusion of the super-duper Adamic blood, which mostly benefitted the white races.

There are other passages where the author clearly shows a White Supremacist bias, so I'd say yes, the UB is a racist tome, and in view of how the Fall of Man, which looms large in Christian theology, has been reimagined as a failed interplanetary racial improvement project, the 1930;s style racial and eugenics content is not a trivial aspect of the book as has often been claimed on forum, but is central to the whole thing.

An essay worth reading here:

http://www.nthposition.com/bibleofeugenics.php


12/7/2014 1:16:55 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,489)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008
online now!


Maybe you guys don't like it that God told the Israelites to go to war on a few occasions, but the Israelites never yhought of themselves as racially superior to their enemies, nor did God ever say anything like that. The Bible is not racist. The Urantia Book is.

12/7/2014 1:25:42 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
clarencec
Over 2,000 Posts (3,667)
South Yorkshire
United Kingdom
60, joined Oct. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Maybe you guys don't like it that God told the Israelites to go to war on a few occasions, but the Israelites never yhought of themselves as racially superior to their enemies, nor did God ever say anything like that. The Bible is not racist. The Urantia Book is.

I don't believe God ever told the Israelites to go to war with anyone. The Hebrew Bible contains a fake history of Israel with a lot of invented material. The Israelites never conquered the Caananites, but emerged peacefully from an ancient Near Eastern background that included Caananite culture. If Yahweh is a tribalistic warlike God in the Hebrew Bible, this only reflects the Israelites' fake fantasy image of themselves as an important conquering nation with the best god.



[Edited 12/7/2014 1:27:59 PM ]

12/7/2014 1:28:51 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from clarencec:
I don't believe God ever told the Israelites to go to war with anyone. The Hebrew Bible is a fake history of Israel with a lot of invented material. The Israelites never conquered the Caananites, but emerged peacefully from an ancient Near Eastern background that included Caananite culture. If Yahweh is a warlike God in the Hebrew Bible, this only reflects the Israelites' fake fantasy image of themselves as an important conquering nation with the best god.


Clarence, do you see how you are not doing Ludlow any favors? Now he just asked this question on the sheep fold thread:

Do TUBbers think that only white people are eugenically pure enough for Heaven?


The things YOU say are feeding him, Clarence.

12/7/2014 1:34:06 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from clarencec:
I don't believe God ever told the Israelites to go to war with anyone. The Hebrew Bible contains a fake history of Israel with a lot of invented material. The Israelites never conquered the Caananites, but emerged peacefully from an ancient Near Eastern background that included Caananite culture. If Yahweh is a tribalistic warlike God in the Hebrew Bible, this only reflects the Israelites' fake fantasy image of themselves as an important conquering nation with the best god.


Very good. Very helpful. Thank you.

How Ludlow can believe that crap about God ordering genocides when Jesus, who is allegedly God himself said:

Mat 5:44 ...I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I think that anyone who believes that God orders genocides on the one hand, and that Jesus commands us to "love our enemies" on the other hand, is going to make themselves very, very sick.

Or as Stevie Wonder said, "When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer."

12/7/2014 1:45:07 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Maybe you guys don't like it that God told the Israelites to go to war on a few occasions, but the Israelites never yhought of themselves as racially superior to their enemies, nor did God ever say anything like that. The Bible is not racist. The Urantia Book is.


Go ahead Ludlow, lash out and parrot the opinions of others, even atheists, if it helps you make it through the night.

But Jesus has one question for you, and I for one would like to hear your final, definitive answer to Jesus:

"Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) kjv

TYPE your answer HERE:

------------------------------------------------------------

Your eternal life might hang on the answer you give Jesus. I hope you don't think you can fool him with sophistries.

New International Version
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

New Living Translation
"So why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord!' when you don't do what I say?

English Standard Version
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

New American Standard Bible
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things I say?

International Standard Version
"Why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord,' but don't do what I tell you?

NET Bible
"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do what I tell you?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Why are you calling me, 'My Lord, my Lord'', and you are not doing whatever I say?”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Why do you call me Lord but don't do what I tell you?

Jubilee Bible 2000
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

King James 2000 Bible
And why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

American King James Version
And why call you me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

American Standard Version
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Douay-Rheims Bible
And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say?

Darby Bible Translation
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say?

English Revised Version
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Webster's Bible Translation
And why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

World English Bible
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?

Young's Literal Translation
'And why do ye call me, Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?



12/7/2014 1:52:39 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


All that is shot fulla holes in my opinion.

For those incapable of real love, those who may have an exclusivity club....

Bon Jovi, " You Give Love A Bad Name"

Oops not addressing you, Furch, you know what I'm talkin about??



[Edited 12/7/2014 1:53:47 PM ]

12/7/2014 2:31:43 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from furchizedek:
But, isn't Jesus God? The words of Jesus then are God's Word, right? And don't you also call what Paul wrote, "God's Word"? And the same with John? Don't you call John's writing "God's Word"? Do you see how muddy the water gets when terms are misused as the term "God's Word" is? Christians would be better off if they would more clearly designate that "God's Word" is really only those words that are spoken by Jesus, or by God himself such as in Matthew 3:17 and Matthew 17:5. Christians do God a disservice by saying that all the words in the bible are "God's Word" when they are not.


Hi everyone Just came in to get the name of the book furchizedek mentioned in a post. Thanks for keeping the thread going. Seems we have a little debate going on . I do believe God is able to speak and write through men. I am not saying people are equal to God but rather of God, they can walk in His Spirit and act with/under His anointing. There is power in the name of Jesus for those who have faith. I do view the Bible as the word of God, no offense furchizedek.


According to the Bible, God created all men. Therefore, He is not racist, The Jewish nation was the only nation on earth that believed in Jehovah in the Old Testament. They were a chosen and called out people. The reason God did not want them to enter into a marriage with other races is because He knew that false gods would be introduced.

Truth is truth, whether God or man speaks it, and there are absolute truths. It is an absolute truth that there is good and evil in this world. I believe there is God, to all who do not, be blessed anyway. I do not claim to be on track with God, I have not been for a good while due to many of those things mentioned in my original post. Yes, I am way off course.

There are enough of you to debate without my input, carry on.

12/7/2014 3:09:30 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


That's the stuff! An absentee OP so that the mice can play. Hehe.

Quote from triannalee:
Hi everyone Just came in to get the name of the book furchizedek mentioned in a post. Thanks for keeping the thread going. Seems we have a little debate going on . I do believe God is able to speak and write through men. I am not saying people are equal to God but rather of God, they can walk in His Spirit and act with/under His anointing. There is power in the name of Jesus for those who have faith. I do view the Bible as the word of God, no offense furchizedek.


According to the Bible, God created all men. Therefore, He is not racist, The Jewish nation was the only nation on earth that believed in Jehovah in the Old Testament. They were a chosen and called out people. The reason God did not want them to enter into a marriage with other races is because He knew that false gods would be introduced.

Truth is truth, whether God or man speaks it, and there are absolute truths. It is an absolute truth that there is good and evil in this world. I believe there is God, to all who do not, be blessed anyway. I do not claim to be on track with God, I have not been for a good while due to many of those things mentioned in my original post. Yes, I am way off course.

There are enough of you to debate without my input, carry on.


12/7/2014 5:09:41 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from furchizedek:
That's the stuff! An absentee OP so that the mice can play. Hehe.



Of Mice or Men quotes:

“Trouble with mice is you always kill 'em. ”

“Maybe ever’body in the whole damn world is scared of each other.”
? John Steinbeck

“His ear heard more than what was said to him, and his slow speech had overtones not of thought, but of understanding beyond thought.”

“Guy don't need no sense to be a nice fella. Seems to me sometimes it jus' works the other way around. Take a real smart guy and he ain't hardly ever a nice fella.”

The atheists will love the next one.

“Just like heaven. Ever’body wants a little piece of lan’. I read plenty of books out here. Nobody never gets to heaven, and nobody gets no land. It’s just in their head. They’re all the time talkin’ about it, but it’s jus’ in their head.”

“In every bit of honest writing in the world, there is a base theme. Try to understand men, if you understand each other you will be kind to each other. KNOWING A MAN WELL NEVER LEADS TO HATE and nearly always leads to love. There are shorter means, many of them. There is writing promoting social change, writing punishing injustice, writing in celebration of heroism, but always that base theme. TRY TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER!”

And here's one that sounds like it was written for a dating site:

“A guy needs somebody?to be near him. A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. Don't make no difference who the guy is, long's he's with you. I tell ya, I tell ya a guy gets too lonely an' he gets sick.”

Here's one we could ponder on awhile:

“Says he foun' he jus' got a little piece of a great big soul. Says a wilderness ain't no good, 'cause his little piece of a soul wasn't no good 'less it was with the rest, an' was whole.”

Mickey Mouses!

12/7/2014 5:47:55 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from wayn49:
i do not know what to say to the one who made this topic but that for the most part christianity is not what it should be and we should love one another regardless


True Wayne. As I asked at the end of the post, where's the love and power? Over the many years of attending church services it seems I have developed a fear. I've seen so much harm done in the name of Jesus and hypocrisy that I truly fear entering a church again. That is not the only reason, there are others. I hope to regain my walk with God but church? I don't know if I'm brave enough.

12/8/2014 1:23:54 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
True Wayne. As I asked at the end of the post, where's the love and power? Over the many years of attending church services it seems I have developed a fear. I've seen so much harm done in the name of Jesus and hypocrisy that I truly fear entering a church again. That is not the only reason, there are others. I hope to regain my walk with God but church? I don't know if I'm brave enough.


One thing about The Urantia Book, or two things, or three maybe: There are no "Urantia" churches yet, after 60 years. There is just the book. No churches, no priests, no ministers, no gurus, no cult leader or leaders such as Paul, no door-to-door salesmen such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons, etc. have. It's just you and the book. If you get a book and read it, no one will ever know you have gotten it or read it unless you tell them.

12/8/2014 5:30:45 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
There is power in the name of Jesus for those who have faith. I do view the Bible as the word of God, no offense furchizedek.


Power in the name? What kind of power could be in a name? Isn't such a belief akin to believing in magic? And you view (is believe an OK substitute for "view" here?) the bible as the word of God? On what basis do you believe that? Do you mean the entirety of what is called the "Christian Bible," which includes the scriptures of the Jews? Do you believe that all the words in the bible are equal in status to Jesus' words? I mean, He is God, isn't He? If he really is God and if his words really are the words of God, doesn't it cheapen and confuse everything to call all the other words in the bible, "God's Word"? Perhaps ALL the words in the bible should be in red, like Jesus' words are in most editions. Do you believe these verses below are "God's Word" and that they are in any way holy or inspired or that they have anything to do with God?:

Isa 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own feces, and drink their own piss with you? kjv

Num 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves [for raping later after dark]. kjv

1Sa 15:2-3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts..., Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. kjv

In Num 31:17-18 above, I added the part in brackets.

What is Godly about those verses? If there's nothing Godly about them then they can hardly be "God's Word."

According to the Bible, God created all men. Therefore, He is not racist,


I never said God was racist. Who said he was a racist? The belief that there are a "chosen people" favored by God IS racist, however. It's the belief that is racist, not God.

Some excerpts on the "chosen people" from The Urantia Book:

71:3.2 Much as it is to be regretted, national egotism has been essential to social survival. The chosen people doctrine has been a prime factor in tribal welding and nation building right on down to modern times.

93:5.1 Although it may be an error to speak of “chosen people,” it is not a mistake to refer to Abraham as a chosen individual. Melchizedek did lay upon Abraham the responsibility of keeping alive the truth of one God as distinguished from the prevailing belief in plural deities.

93:9.9 The national ego of the Jews was tremendously depressed by the Babylonian captivity. In their reaction against national inferiority they swung to the other extreme of national and racial egotism, in which they distorted and perverted their traditions with the view of exalting themselves above all races as the chosen people of God;

134:5.4 This rule of the Most Highs in the kingdoms of men is not for the especial benefit of any especially favored group of mortals. There is no such thing as a “chosen people.” The rule of the Most Highs, the overcontrollers of political evolution, is a rule designed to foster the greatest good to the greatest number of all men and for the greatest length of time.


(Note on the above, 134:5.4, this means for all "men" on all worlds in God's creation.)

The Jewish nation was the only nation on earth that believed in Jehovah in the Old Testament.


They call their book the Tanakh.

They were a chosen and called out people.


That's what they put in their Tanakh and that's what they told each other. It was internal propaganda to keep the spirit of the people up. It's like how we in the US are always, and constantly told that "We're Number One, Rah, Rah, Rah, USA! USA!"

The reason God did not want them to enter into a marriage with other races is because He knew that false gods would be introduced.


I doubt if that is true. No offense.

Truth is truth, whether God or man speaks it, and there are absolute truths. It is an absolute truth that there is good and evil in this world. I believe there is God, to all who do not, be blessed anyway. I do not claim to be on track with God, I have not been for a good while due to many of those things mentioned in my original post. Yes, I am way off course.

There are enough of you to debate without my input, carry on.


12/8/2014 11:39:20 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Furch, Thank you for your input. I just pulled a ten hour shift and I am exhausted, hoping to answer your post perhaps Friday when I hopefully will not have to work. Thanks again.

12/8/2014 11:42:41 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
luxorus
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,034)
Peoria, IL
39, joined Apr. 2014


I'm allah, so worship me

provide me free foods at my doorstep and cower away in humility

also...leave women at my doorstep and go away

12/8/2014 11:50:09 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


If you're Allah you should probably not be using the Jade Buddha as your profile picture. Just sayin.

Quote from luxorus:
I'm allah, so worship me

provide me free foods at my doorstep and cower away in humility

also...leave women at my doorstep and go away


12/8/2014 11:51:09 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
Furch, Thank you for your input. I just pulled a ten hour shift and I am exhausted, hoping to answer your post perhaps Friday when I hopefully will not have to work. Thanks again.


No problem, take your time.

12/9/2014 12:01:42 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
luxorus
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,034)
Peoria, IL
39, joined Apr. 2014


I reckon that the truth is nameless

12/9/2014 10:57:55 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014




12/9/2014 11:40:39 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from luxorus:
I reckon that the truth is nameless


The first scripture that came to mind after I read your statement was John 14:6, the Truth does have a name.

The Christ said, "I AM WAY the TRUTH, and the LIFE. No one can come to the Father except through me.

The Word of God is called Truth, John 17:17. Here are five of the most beautiful verses concerning Who and what Truth is:

John 1:1-5
1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




Good to see you Luxorus, I hope you have been well.

12/10/2014 2:07:15 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
The first scripture that came to mind after I read your statement was John 14:6, the Truth does have a name.

The Christ said, "I AM WAY the TRUTH, and the LIFE. No one can come to the Father except through me.


Jesus could easily have been speaking geographically as well as spiritually, above.

It's a wonderful verse, I like it, but what I don't like is what Christians try to make it imply, the meaning they try to get Jesus to mean when they say it, which is something like this:

"You must believe as WE do, that Jesus died for your sins, and you must believe it RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE or else you will be tortured for all eternity in Hell by our loving Father in Heaven."

I think that's what most Christians mean when they lay that verse on people who don't believe as they do. They lay it on someone and they sit back smugly and assume that the conversation is over and that if the other person doesn't become a Christian, and soon, well, then, it's just too bad for them. They were warned.

But of course, Jesus doesn't say what I think Christians want to make him say there. Jesus doesn't put a time limit on when one must come to the Father through Jesus. Christians add that implied meaning: "Right Now, Or Else!" They use it as a threat. "Don't blame us when you're frying in Hell. You were warned."

AMIWRONG?

Do Christians have any idea that most good people, all around the world who love God, Christian or not, will probably make it to the "mansions" that Jesus spoke of (the Mansion Worlds in The Urantia Book), and will be given ample time there to make fully informed choices about their salvation, away from all this earthly madness with thousands of different Christian sects, and others, all shouting, "Our religion is The One True Religion. Believe us or else you won't be saved."?



12/10/2014 6:02:23 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
62, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from triannalee:
The first scripture that came to mind after I read your statement was John 14:6, the Truth does have a name.

The Christ said, "I AM WAY the TRUTH, and the LIFE. No one can come to the Father except through me.

The Word of God is called Truth, John 17:17. Here are five of the most beautiful verses concerning Who and what Truth is:

John 1:1-5
1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.




Good to see you Luxorus, I hope you have been well.


According to Sant mat, Word, also known as Naam or Kalma, is manifest as sound and light that is experienced within while in a state of meditation.
immersion in that light and that sound frees the aspirant from this world.
Believing or not believing isn't the answer, experiencing the WORD firsthand is.

12/10/2014 8:38:53 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Yes!! See posts in Christians and lies!!Asanb!!
Furch, your post is very good too!

12/10/2014 12:22:17 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

turkalurk82
Over 1,000 Posts (1,071)
Godfrey, IL
35, joined Sep. 2014


I always looked at it like an identit statement. He says he is the way the truth and the life. So, the only way to the father is living in the way of truth. So, the way to the father has nothing to do with his earthly identity as the man jesus. Has nothing to do with man's stories of who he was, because that identity is not the only way to the father. Its his identity as the enlightened one. Like when gurus shed their egoic identity and become the universal soul.

Thats my take on it anyway.

12/10/2014 6:55:19 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from turkalurk82:
I always looked at it like an identit statement. He says he is the way the truth and the life. So, the only way to the father is living in the way of truth. So, the way to the father has nothing to do with his earthly identity as the man jesus. Has nothing to do with man's stories of who he was, because that identity is not the only way to the father. Its his identity as the enlightened one. Like when gurus shed their egoic identity and become the universal soul.

Thats my take on it anyway.


Jesus actually tells us the only way to the Father, to Heaven, to Paradise, to salvation:

"Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

"For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:50)

12/11/2014 12:01:22 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from furchizedek:
Jesus could easily have been speaking geographically as well as spiritually, above.

It's a wonderful verse, I like it, but what I don't like is what Christians try to make it imply, the meaning they try to get Jesus to mean when they say it, which is something like this:

"You must believe as WE do, that Jesus died for your sins, and you must believe it RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE or else you will be tortured for all eternity in Hell by our loving Father in Heaven."

I think that's what most Christians mean when they lay that verse on people who don't believe as they do. They lay it on someone and they sit back smugly and assume that the conversation is over and that if the other person doesn't become a Christian, and soon, well, then, it's just too bad for them. They were warned.

But of course, Jesus doesn't say what I think Christians want to make him say there. Jesus doesn't put a time limit on when one must come to the Father through Jesus. Christians add that implied meaning: "Right Now, Or Else!" They use it as a threat. "Don't blame us when you're frying in Hell. You were warned."

AMIWRONG?

Do Christians have any idea that most good people, all around the world who love God, Christian or not, will probably make it to the "mansions" that Jesus spoke of (the Mansion Worlds in The Urantia Book), and will be given ample time there to make fully informed choices about their salvation, away from all this earthly madness with thousands of different Christian sects, and others, all shouting, "Our religion is The One True Religion. Believe us or else you won't be saved."?



I'm not trying to convert anyone, scripture says faith comes by hearing the Word of God. I believe the Bible whether others do or not. God has proven to me His Word is trustworthy. Jesus said there is no other way into Heaven except through Him. I believe in Christ without apology. I am not the world's judge, thank goodness. Yes, there are many good people all around the world, I'm not about to put God in a box and say that they won't make it in. What I will say is that unless they accept the sacrifice of Christ, according to scripture they will not enter into Heaven.

12/11/2014 12:07:19 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from asanb:
According to Sant mat, Word, also known as Naam or Kalma, is manifest as sound and light that is experienced within while in a state of meditation.
immersion in that light and that sound frees the aspirant from this world.
Believing or not believing isn't the answer, experiencing the WORD firsthand is.


Jesus is the Light that entered into this dark world. I have experienced the presence of God many times while in prayer. I agree, experiencing the Word first hand is like nothing else.

12/11/2014 2:26:35 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

erikbenn
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (10,053)
Spokane, WA
43, joined Nov. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
Organized religions have accomplished much good in this world, history proves it. History and the experiences of many also point to corruption in these organizations, damning doctrines.

Being a Christian has it dangers. Many are easily persuaded by those who have authority in churches. Accepting what is said from a pulpit as ultimate truth without studying scripture can lead to confusion and harm. Study to show yourself approved…rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

“You’re going to Hell if you remarry” mentality. Once I met a man who was a State Overseer in a certain church denomination. Though he was very knowledgeable about the word of God, the doctrine that supposedly would damn him had a stronghold in his mind. Of course they cast him out of church, and office. He told me he knew he was damned because his first marriage had ended, he had married again and wasn’t about to leave his second wife. He was convinced of his own damnation because of teachings he was taught and believed. The problem with such doctrines is when a person believes an error as truth, there will be no change in their lives. Sin will multiply in a person’s life when they believe there is no grace available for them. I know another man who believes there is no hope for the same reason. His own family has turned against him, most of them believe he will be damned because of a twisted doctrine. It’s okay if you have slept with a 100 people, just don’t get a divorce. You can be a rapist, child molester or murderer, and receive more acceptance and grace in most churches than someone who has remarried.

“Everyone/thing has a demon,” mentality. My argument is with those who claim to have the power of God and don’t use it. Doesn’t it say, “What is bound in Heaven can be bound on earth”? Scripture states, “The fervent, effectual prayers of a righteous man avails much.” Let’s say there is a righteous man or woman; and someone believed to be demonized is standing before them. Will the power of faith within them set the person free of the demon? Probably not, it’s easier to speak evil, let them go to hell, that’s easier than operating in faith isn’t it? It would be reasonable to conclude bitterness has lowered that Christian’s ability to be gracious and operate in faith. Faith operates by love doesn’t it? No love, no faith. Take Joyce Myers for example. She stated her biological father had sex with her around 200 hundred times. Did she gain a devil through sexual encounters with him? Most Pentecostal Christians would say yes. Was she delivered of this demon? If so, I have never heard her state when that deliverance took place. I’m not bashing Joyce, she has proven we can overcome a tormented past and give hope to others that have suffered the same. It is rare that a well-known minister will admit to having a devil’s influence operating in them.

I knew a woman who loved a man. It ended up that she was tagged as having a demon. They (the religious) made no attempt to deliver her of this assumed demonic presence. It would have been better for him had she been a prostitute, at least it would be easier to say a prostitute was demonic than someone being possessed by love, . Did these religious people care? Of course not, they were too busy proving they were holy and performing power plays. She was insignificant, no threat at all. It was the laughter and jesting of his peers that prompted his ill actions and words. I wonder, would it have been different had she shared his same status? But then, we have seen men of faith fall for prostitutes, greed for money, power and other things. Undoubtedly power can and does corrupt.

“Legalism” mentality. I believe in God and His goodness, grace. There are standards to live by, but everyone and everything is not demonic, neither will legalism save a soul. It is a ploy to promote fear, to keep people in check, submissive in the church. Real faith is liberating. They say, “Get it right or get out.“ Tell me, what Christian do you know who continuously walks in perfect love? I know not one, I do know some who come close though. Scripture states in the last days many shall fall away from the faith because of offenses. Have you ever attended church and felt worse when you left? Being beaten with a sermon of thou shalt not’s? What about liberating people? Most churches I’ve attended consider all rock music evil, that’s a lie. Love songs are not evil. Read “Song of Solomon” if you need proof. Movie theaters are considered evil. Dancing is evil. Wearing jewelry, women wearing slacks, short hair on women and long hair on men, wearing cosmetics, is considered evil by some churches. Once while standing in a jewelry section, I overheard two women a few feet away. One lady was considering buying a pair of earrings. The other lady said, “If God wanted me to have earrings I would have been born with them.” What kind of mentality is that? We were not born wearing clothes, nor did we come into the world holding soap or deodorant, but (hopefully) we all have and use these things.

Christ said, “Love one another.” Where does scripture prove that sin, including remarriage cannot be forgiven? How does heaping on the additional burdens of legalism free or save us? Where does scripture state that we all have demons and need to be delivered? Christ said love would be the trademark of Christians, and power was given to them in the name of Jesus. Where is the love and power?
How many churches have you been to?

12/11/2014 6:36:01 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
asanb
Over 4,000 Posts! (5,455)
Sanbornton, NH
62, joined Jul. 2012


Quote from triannalee:
Jesus is the Light that entered into this dark world. I have experienced the presence of God many times while in prayer. I agree, experiencing the Word first hand is like nothing else.


I'm not speaking about a figurative or emotional attachment. I'm speaking of seeing and experiencing first hand.

" It is a matter of seeing. How much ability or intellectual attainment is required for that? Even a child sees. How simple it is and how difficult we have made it, is it not so? And what is it that makes it difficult? Our intellect. Intellect is all right for understanding. I am not altogether denouncing the intellect. It is for the purpose of understanding. When you have understood, then do it. You may study for years to acquire understanding, but once you have understood and have seen proof for your own self, that there is Light, then why all this coming and going, receding and progressing? How much ability is required in seeing? Is any ability required? Is any Ph.D. degree or scientific degree required for that? Look. See. The child sees; is it not easy? Don't let your intellect stand in your way. Look sweetly into what comes. What is given to you --receive. And you will see the same thing about which the Scriptures have told you. You have by now received some experience of It, there is no doubt now. There's no doubt about it, you see. But I wish you to progress in days what would ordinarily take years. Put in your whole time. You are here for that purpose. Forget everything--past, future, here, there, relations, your body, even your intellect. Leave it all aside. How long does it take? You are to absorb your attention into Light or Sound. That's all. It is the yoga of the attention, you see. Surat Yoga, not Gyan Yoga, nor Hatha Yoga, nor Bhakti Yoga. It is Surat Yoga which even a child can do; I think a child can do even better. This is why when children are given a sitting, they see Light. They simply see. "All right, look." They look with no intellectual wrestling. This is what is required. Intellect is a good thing--again I will say--it is not to be denounced altogether. But it is only for understanding. When you have understood, then leave, leave it aside. Go do it. So this is, I think, the biggest problem we've got--intellectual wrestling. The man with intellectual attainments can explain the same things in so many ways. Intellectual attainments are like a garland of flowers around the neck of a practical man. But if he doesn't have any degrees, he'll explain from his own vocabulary using examples around him. Bulleh Shah went to his Guru who was a gardener, putting saplings here and there, and asked him how to find God. Oh, very simple; just take the saplings from here and put it there, that's all. Just as you are directing your attention from one side to another, that's all. He explained in a very simple way what a learned man would explain in so many books. After all, we have to do the same thing. So make the best use of your intellect. I do not denounce it, but when once you have understood, follow it. So feelings, emotions, and drawing inferences are all subject to error as I told you. Seeing is above all. It is a matter of seeing. How simple it is to look sweetly. I look sweetly. Eyes speak to eyes. That darkness will be thinned. You are Light. You will be absorbed in Light still more. You are already Light. You will become bigger Light. "
http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/lok/absorb.htm

12/11/2014 10:23:34 AMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

rufftreasure
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (19,220)
Fairmont, MN
62, joined Jun. 2014


Are you a church hopper too, or have you been? Ericben??
Just curious, as it takes one to know one. I have hopped alot of churches to find out I don't need one



[Edited 12/11/2014 10:24:00 AM ]

12/11/2014 1:14:29 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 

furchizedek
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (17,868)
Kingman, AZ
75, joined Sep. 2010


Quote from triannalee:
I'm not trying to convert anyone, scripture says faith comes by hearing the Word of God. I believe the Bible whether others do or not. God has proven to me His Word is trustworthy. Jesus said there is no other way into Heaven except through Him. I believe in Christ without apology. I am not the world's judge, thank goodness. Yes, there are many good people all around the world, I'm not about to put God in a box and say that they won't make it in. What I will say is that unless they accept the sacrifice of Christ, according to scripture they will not enter into Heaven.


I know I told you about the Christian Group here on DH. This isn't it. So your idea about "unless they accept the sacrifice of Christ" is your belief and while that's fine, you shouldn't state it here as if it's a fact. On the Christian Group they probably do, but not everyone here believes as you do.

So let's take "the sacrifice of Christ" for a minute.

Right off, Jesus contradicts you. And this happens because you follow Paul and not Jesus. You wrote: "unless they accept the sacrifice of Christ, according to scripture." The "according to scripture" is the real problem. What you likely mean is according to Paul. But Jesus clearly says,

"Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

Read that carefully and slowly. Do you get it? "Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

YOU must do the Father's will to enter the kingdom of heaven. When all is said and done, YOU MUST do the Father's will to get to heaven. So says Jesus, the Son of God. Why would you listen to anyone else?

Jesus doesn't say, "Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who accepts the sacrifice of Christ."

No where in the NT does Jesus or any of his 12 real, personally chosen and trained apostles ever publicly tell the people, the MULTITUDE, while Jesus was alive, that the gospel was that Jesus had come to die for their sins and that they must accept that in order to be saved. And yet we know that Jesus and the 12 real apostles did preach the gospel, the real gospel of Jesus, to thousands of people:

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)

"And it came to pass... that Jesus went throughout every city and village, preaching and showing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him..." (Luke 8:1) (Also see Matthew 4:23, Mark 1:14, and Luke 4:43.)

So in Matthew above, Jesus himself preached "the gospel of the kingdom" to the people.

Your assignment is to find out what THAT gospel was, the gospel that Jesus and the 12 were preaching, before Jesus' death and long before anyone heard of Paul. Was it the gospel you believe in now, that Jesus came to die for your sins? Or does that gospel come from Paul, a man who never met Jesus and who was not one of Jesus' 12 personally chosen and trained apostles? From Paul who said, "Being crafty, I caught you with guile." (2Co 12:16) What gospel were Jesus and the 12 preaching to the people? What were they telling the people, in public, at these large events with thousands there, what were they telling the people that would assure them of eternal life?

Paul, said:
"Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ." -Rom 15:19

"Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." -2Co 12:12

And this after Jesus warned, in exactly the same words Paul used:

"For there shall arise... false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." -Mat 24:24

And here you are. You are the "elect" and you were deceived.

And then, after Paul took over, he even had the nerve to warn his followers away from any gospel that was not his, not Paul's, even if that true gospel had come from Jesus himself:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal_1:8)

Paul was indeed a very clever man. He had it covered all ways.

But what really is the gospel that Jesus preached? What was the information that Jesus gave to the people before he died that would insure their salvation? Was it that they had to believe that he came to die for their sins? No, not at all.

"Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

You must do the Father's will, that's the real gospel from Jesus. And why did Jesus come here? Does he say?

“To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.” (John 18:37)

Oh, strange that Jesus didn't say that he came to die for our sins. He came to bear witness unto the truth.

But you're "saved by grace," right?

Well, Jesus never said that. That gospel comes from Paul, not Jesus. Basically, Paul's gospel is that Jesus died for you sins, you can't do anything on your own, you're "saved by grace," so just sit around on your butt and believe, and everything will be OK, it's all been done for you.

Jesus' gospel, on the other hand, says that you must do the Father's will to attain salvation. Paul effectively, by his cleverness, usurped Jesus' gospel. Anyone should be able to see Satan's hand in Paul's work.

Here, Jesus is asked point blank:

...Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? [Jesus] said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And [Jesus] said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25-28)

You must do the Father's will to be saved, and the Father's will is that you love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Not hard. Anyone on earth can do it.

12/11/2014 6:37:04 PMThe Mentality in Many Churches 
triannalee
Signal Mountain, TN
60, joined Jun. 2014


Quote from erikbenn:
How many churches have you been to?


I visited Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, non-denominational and others, but really it all is about Christ and His work.